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View Poll Results: Should "Under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance?
Yes, remove it 51 49.51%
No, keep it 52 50.49%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 11-20-2014, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,276,395 times
Reputation: 7990

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I am a persuaded atheist, but I have to ask, how much are judges paid these days? Unless it is zero, I think they have better things to spend their time on than this. Most Americans still believe in God...deal with it, atheists.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:54 AM
 
58,465 posts, read 26,784,841 times
Reputation: 14088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
I sometimes think some go a little too far in trying to get "God" removed from everything, but considering the fact "Under God" wasn't in the initial pledge and the circumstances surroudning it being added to it in the first place, it should be removed.
The Pledge isn't part of the Constitution

"The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country."

"In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added."

"In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration."

The Pledge of Allegiance

"The United States Congress officially recognized the Pledge for the first time, in the following form, on June 22, 1942:"

Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The pont is, the pledge WASN'T "official" until 1942. It has been changes several times.

I DON'T think Congress will remove "under God".
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:59 AM
 
58,465 posts, read 26,784,841 times
Reputation: 14088
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Yeah I see both sides as well, but really as a atheist i am big on the separation of church and state thing. And the reality is that leaving it in has the result of indoctrinating children-peer pressure is powerful, and the state often forces children to recite the pledge. When the consequences of not doing so can vary wildly I beleive its unconstitutional.

But a court will decide that. I'm hoping eventually the supreme court will.
"i am big on the separation of church and state thing."

There isa HUGE difference between "separation OF" and "seperation FROM".

Our Forefathers used to have Sunday religious services IN THE CAPITOL BUILDING as well as other instances where they support religious things in public buildings which tells me those that want ALL references of GOD removed from public places don't have a leg to stand on.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:06 AM
 
58,465 posts, read 26,784,841 times
Reputation: 14088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacationmacation View Post
This is how I feel. I substitute teach sometimes and I find it annoying having to stand up facing the flag
GOD, I hope NO ONE I know has you as a teacher.

It is no wonder so many of our young have no RESPECT for our country.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:12 AM
 
Location: georgia
939 posts, read 790,233 times
Reputation: 704
The whole idea of A Judge making a decision on our nations pledge is ridiculous. People who want God removed from the public obviously don't have much going on in their lives, and far too much time on their hands to think "how can I be a general pain in the butt? Judges have WAY too much authority in many instances- as if their opinion is more important than everyone else put together!
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:12 AM
 
58,465 posts, read 26,784,841 times
Reputation: 14088
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
I wonder if they will also declare Lincoln's Gettysburg Address "unconstitutional" as well, and forbid it to be read and learned (we had to memorize it when I was in school), because that's where the words "under God" were adopted from.

Most liberals probably don't know that, because they know nothing of our history.
They will probably want to abolish Thanksgiving as well

Thanksgiving Proclamation

[New York, 3 October 1789]
Page Image.
By the President of the United States of America, a Proclamation.
Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.
Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be-- That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.
and also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions-- to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.
Given under my hand at the City of New York the third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789. Go: Washington
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:19 AM
 
46,757 posts, read 25,687,732 times
Reputation: 29277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacationmacation View Post
You realize that you come from a country where Christianity is the official religion and the only religion favored by the government, despite large number of seculars
No, I never realized that. There's exactly one person who's obliged to be a member of the state church - the monarch - and as for the rest of us, we tend to visit church for baptisms, confiramations, weddings and funerals. More to the point, the very idea of a teacher leading a class in a loyalty oath to flag & country would be considered a complete joke, with a few unflattering comparisons to certain ideologies ending in "ism" that our neighbor countries used to operate under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Opposition to this is just plain silly. Just because one person doesn't believe in God does not mean we must abandon all references to God in our historical documents (shall we also remove "Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged." in the Northwest Ordinance?
As long as it's being taught as historical documents, of course not. If you have a government representative leading the children in a daily recitation - that's a different kettle of fish. Aren't y'all supposed to be about small government anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
It is no wonder so many of our young have no RESPECT for our country.
You feel that daily rote repetition of a loyalty oath is a good way to instill respect? Interesting, but not uncommon.

Everybody knows what a Bellamy salute looks like, so here's a bunch of young pioneers declaring allegiance to their nation and the principles on which it stands:



Actually, the USSR example was the first I ever heard of daily loyalty oaths in schools. Kinda left me with a distaste for the practice.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:29 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,926,895 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
IT doesn't mention any one particular God. I'm not a complete Atheist, so I don't understand the complaint from their end.

This was added much later after our founding. Many state constitutions mention God in them, however the Federal Constitution does not, this was on purpose.

Perhaps it should be removed from the federal pledge. You don't have to say it, as I remember, you have the option of abstaining or leaving the room if you feel persecuted.

Seems to me everyone is offended by something these days. Even if I WAS an atheist, which I'm not, I don't see how the word "God" offends anyone! I mean, I understand how one could be offended by certain aspects of organized religion, given the different interpretations, the number of BS man-made laws , and how sometimes it is abused in God's name, I'd bet God would be offended by that as well!
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,154 posts, read 26,050,110 times
Reputation: 27886
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Seems to me everyone is offended by something these days. Even if I WAS an atheist, which I'm not, I don't see how the word "God" offends anyone! I mean, I understand how one could be offended by certain aspects of organized religion, given the different interpretations, the number of BS man-made laws , and how sometimes it is abused in God's name, I'd bet God would be offended by that as well!
And easy example is often used.
Tell us truthfully that you would have no objection saying the pledge if "under God" was traded for "Under Lucifer" or "Under Bythos " and we'll give your post some deserved consideration..
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:59 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,926,895 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
And easy example is often used.
Tell us truthfully that you would have no objection saying the pledge if "under God" was traded for "Under Lucifer" or "Under Bythos " and we'll give your post some deserved consideration..

You're seriously comparing what God represents as opposed to what Lucifer represents? Give me a break!
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