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hmmmm, again...
I never considered the Pledge of Allegiance to be a "loyalty oath".
However, the oath I swore to every time I enlisted or re-enlisted, THAT was a "Loyalty Oath" to the Constitution of The United States, SO HELP ME GOD!
Interestingly, in all the times I took that oath, from 1958 through the late 1980s, individually and in groups, I never encountered one single person who objected to the mention of God. Apparently, if there were any objectors, they kept quiet and just didn't say the phrase.
It is a shame, IMO, that people today can't do that.
hmmmm, again...
I never considered the Pledge of Allegiance to be a "loyalty oath".
Meh, we can quibble over definitions.
Quote:
However, the oath I swore to every time I enlisted or re-enlisted, THAT was a "Loyalty Oath" to the Constitution of The United States, SO HELP ME GOD!
Interestingly, in all the times I took that oath, from 1958 through the late 1980s, individually and in groups, I never encountered one single person who objected to the mention of God. Apparently, if there were any objectors, they kept quiet and just didn't say the phrase.
"So help me God" is officially optional in the enlistment oath.
Quote:
It is a shame, IMO, that people today can't do that.
You're arguing in favor of a government official leading children in a daily recitation of a government-approved loyalty oath with a distinct religious undertone, and yet you decry "group think and mob mentality of freedom to say or do whatever only they approve of"? Wow. That's some fine projection right there.
No I'm arguing that progressive nut jobs can't leave well enough alone! Honestly, is it really hurting anyone that God's name is invoked in the pledge? Distinct religious undertone???? Our country was founded on the basis of a Creator!
I think Redraven and I are on the same page here, that if someone objected they didn't make a big stink about it.
Washington was a Freemason, so maybe he was referencing whatever it is Freemasons believe in.
Well, let's see if his own words can give us a clue, shall we??
"Almighty God"
"Great and Glorious Being"
"Beneficit Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be"
"Great Lord and Ruler of nations"
It seems he believed in God, or at least a god like being!
"So help me God" is officially optional in the enlistment oath.
Why is that a shame?
YES, we should be precise in definitions! Using the correct term in the correct way is absolutely VITAL to clear communication, IMO
Sorry, but NO, the first three or four times I took that oath it was NOT "optional".
Those who did not like it just did not say it, even though they did NOT have official permission to delete it.
If you don't understand why it is a shame, there is no use trying to explain it to you. Such an explanation would be an exercise in futility, and I'm not getting involved in the game. Since you do not believe that correct terminology is important, it is obvious to me you would make no effort to understand.
No I'm arguing that progressive nut jobs can't leave well enough alone!
If the "well enough" is schoolchildren chanting the nation's praises in unison, you don't see the irony in accusing those not wanting to follow along of "groupthink"? Guess not.
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I think Redraven and I are on the same page here, that if someone objected they didn't make a big stink about it.
And in my book, acquiescing so as not to make waves - that's giving in to groupthink and mob mentality.
Surprised the King hasn't already changed it. Maybe if he institutes that once a month, we can petition him face to face for things we'd like done in the kingdom, we can rid ourselves of Ike's little addition to our pledge. And why pledge to a piece of fabric anyway, when throughout history, one pledged loyalty to the king, and as of last night, we have one of those.
Whole new America calls for a whole new way of swearing fealty.
Well, let's see if his own words can give us a clue, shall we??
"Almighty God"
"Great and Glorious Being"
"Beneficit Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be"
"Great Lord and Ruler of nations"
It seems he believed in God, or at least a god like being!
But what was his "True Religion"?
There have been many gods dreamed up by humankind, and there are many religions.
If the "well enough" is schoolchildren chanting the nation's praises in unison, you don't see the irony in accusing those not wanting to follow along of "groupthink"? Guess not.
And in my book, acquiescing so as not to make waves - that's giving in to groupthink and mob mentality.
How about the fact that one keeping their mouth shut is out of respect and dignity for those who do have faith? Nobody is forcing you to say it, nobody is forcing you to believe, so why not leave it the hell alone?! It was fine for all of these years, and now all of a sudden it isn't? Because of some butt hurt militant atheists?
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