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If the government doesn't over regulate everything to within an inch of it's life then the only alternative is koas, anarchy, pushing grandma off a cliff and children starving in the streets.
Absolute horse dung.
Well cherry picker, here is the post I was replying to.
"The "Civilized Society" that the inscription on the IRS building says is the reason we need to pay taxes."
My response wasn't about government regulating to an inch of life. My post was about a nation without any tax structure.
No tax structure,
No Medicare
No Social Security
No educational system.
No regulation concerning worker's rights
No police
No fire
Did I leave anything out?
Well cherry picker, here is the post I was replying to.
"The "Civilized Society" that the inscription on the IRS building says is the reason we need to pay taxes."
My response wasn't about government regulating to an inch of life. My post was about a nation without any tax structure.
No tax structure,
No Medicare
No Social Security
No educational system.
No regulation concerning worker's rights
No police
No fire
Did I leave anything out?
See the difference????????
I didn't think so.
Who said anything about no taxes?
Over taxation (taxes levied and used for things beyond what the Constitution allows) and over regulation are simply two sides of the same coin.
They go hand in hand in big government, nanny state ideology.
And please, do show us where this "social contract" you speak of is in the Constitution or Bil of Rights.
Well cherry picker, here is the post I was replying to.
"The "Civilized Society" that the inscription on the IRS building says is the reason we need to pay taxes."
My response wasn't about government regulating to an inch of life. My post was about a nation without any tax structure.
No tax structure,
No Medicare
No Social Security
No educational system.
No regulation concerning worker's rights
No police
No fire
Did I leave anything out?
See the difference????????
I didn't think so.
This kind of thinking is funny to me...like any of that is necessary. This list was meant to show how terrible things would be, but it sounds wonderful to me. Have it all be done voluntarily. I do realize I'm in the extreme minority here, but I feel very strongly about it.
It comes down to this principle: you don't have a right to anyone else's property...time...LIFE. Anytime you force someone else to pay for something, even if you think its for a good cause, you're violating their right to keep what they earned (and you're stealing part of their life on this earth, as they spent valuable time to earn it). If you're worried that x won't get done without forcing people to fund it, why don't you personally take the money from your neighbors at gunpoint? That's what you're doing by having them taxed for government programs anyway...you're just having someone else do it for you.
I'm not trying to be offensive to you. I just want to point out what most people are actually advocating.
You are making no sense here, do you not like having safe drinkable water when you turn on your tap? If your water wasn't drinkable anymore, who would you be upset with?
The company that I pay for clean water.
You have clean, drinkable water because you pay for it too.
That makes perfect sense.
At the founding of our country, people paid with time, hard work, trade or currency to have clean water.
We still do.
Some feel entitled to it for free is all that I was saying.
You have clean, drinkable water because you pay for it too.
That makes perfect sense.
At the founding of our country, people paid with time, hard work, trade or currency to have clean water.
We still do.
Some feel entitled to it for free is all that I was saying.
You pay a company to pump clean water to your faucets? Alaska sounds awful, I don't have to pay a company for my tap water. Though that doesn't change the fact that I expect safe clean drinking water when I turn on my taps.
It doesn't matter who does and doesn't pay for clean water, it is still expected to be clean when one turns on a faucet.
If the government doesn't tax and regulate everything to within an inch of it's life then the only alternative is kaos, anarchy, pushing grandma off a cliff and children starving in the streets.
Absolute horse dung.
Its been going that way since the mid60's and the free stuff. Europe is learning the lesson of doing it on credit once to you have taxed the few who actually pay taxes. Austerity they faced is only reduction of increased spending; no cuts and they accomplish that with out the depend people cry starvation.
You pay a company to pump clean water to your faucets? Alaska sounds awful, I don't have to pay a company for my tap water. Though that doesn't change the fact that I expect safe clean drinking water when I turn on my taps.
It doesn't matter who does and doesn't pay for clean water, it is still expected to be clean when one turns on a faucet.
This kind of thinking is funny to me...like any of that is necessary. This list was meant to show how terrible things would be, but it sounds wonderful to me. Have it all be done voluntarily. I do realize I'm in the extreme minority here, but I feel very strongly about it.
It comes down to this principle: you don't have a right to anyone else's property...time...LIFE. Anytime you force someone else to pay for something, even if you think its for a good cause, you're violating their right to keep what they earned (and you're stealing part of their life on this earth, as they spent valuable time to earn it). If you're worried that x won't get done without forcing people to fund it, why don't you personally take the money from your neighbors at gunpoint? That's what you're doing by having them taxed for government programs anyway...you're just having someone else do it for you.
I'm not trying to be offensive to you. I just want to point out what most people are actually advocating.
First I commend you on your ability to advocate without being offensive and in that same vain I offer my comment. That so many are unskilled and feel the need to label their opponents ignorant, because they have a different understanding on the issues, or discussion, makes it refreshing to see someone with a higher standard.
What you are in the extreme minority, but feel very strongly about, is a position I share with you. In taking my thoughts deeper and trying to arrive at a solution where they could work in a large society I failed. It always comes to the circular end of who will watch the gatekeepers and who will in turn watch them. Often times I look at history to see how things have come to pass. I imagine what could have been done different and try to tweak it to my desired result and still I fail. I much prefer to live in my imagination but reality shakes me from it all to often. I still admire the principle.
In looking to history to see how it was done in one item on Mohawkx list "no police" we can examine how it came to be. The words like voluntarily and force are of particular note in the article. But it is the last paragraph that offers the reason.
More than crime, police forces emerged as a response to "disorder." What constitutes social and public order were defined by the mercantile interests, who through taxes and political influence supported the development of bureaucratic policing institutions. These economic interests had a greater interest in social control than crime control. The emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to insure a stable and orderly work force, and environment for the conduct of business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the "collective good".These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves of the cost of protecting their own enterprises, transferring those costs from the private sector to the state.
How remarkable the conservatives of that time share so much in common, yet differ on the question today. "What exactly are you entitled to in the USA?"
The "collective good" is an interesting term one would likely find in the works of socialist and communism. Here it is the conservative view point.
Last edited by phma; 11-24-2014 at 11:37 PM..
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