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Old 01-04-2008, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
626 posts, read 990,189 times
Reputation: 141

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You have yet to make a compelling argument. You misunderstood the original points, so now you're on a legalese tirade in an attempt to save face. Debating with someone in such a mental state is never a good use of time.
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Old 01-04-2008, 03:58 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,664,569 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
What is a Libertarian?

Let's start with Webster's definition:

Libertarian: A person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action. Capitalized: a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles.


Libertarians believe in, and pursue, personal freedom while maintaining personal responsibility. The Libertarian Party itself serves a much larger pro-liberty community with the specific mission of electing Libertarians to public office.


Libertarians strongly oppose any government interfering in their personal, family and business decisions. Essentially, we believe all Americans should be free to live their lives and pursue their interests as they see fit as long as they do no harm to another.


In a nutshell, we are advocates for a smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom.

Frequently asked questions about the Libertarian Party (broken link)
Yes, but when you take the definition to the extreme "A person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action." by adding "Libertarians strongly oppose any government interfering in their personal, family and business decisions. " without any qualifications, then you are describing anarchism.
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Old 01-04-2008, 04:28 PM
 
13,608 posts, read 20,659,738 times
Reputation: 7614
Quote:
"Libertarians strongly oppose any government interfering in their personal, family and business decisions. "
But that is neither a desire for no government whatsoever nor a prescripiton for anarchy. As I said, some government is certainly vital. What the Libertarians are saying is that while the government can and should do things such as arrest people for murder and sustain armed forces, they have no business telling us we cannot smoke pot as its an activitiy that only harms the smoker, not the individual. If the individual chooses the risk, so be it.

Libertarianism is a desire for less government not no government. That's all it is. Its so simple it confuses people.

Most people in the USA and pretty much nobody in Europe truly understands Libertarianism- ironic as it came from Europe. I would suggest you read the best works of Friedrich von Hayek as well as Milton Friedman, the twin pillars of Libertarian thought, at least in the 20th Century.
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Old 01-04-2008, 04:36 PM
 
13,608 posts, read 20,659,738 times
Reputation: 7614
Quote:
You have yet to make a compelling argument.
My argument was so overwhelmingly compelling that you needed to manipulate text, distort it and generally assume the role of a liar in order to forge anything resembling a coherent rebuttal.

Quote:
You misunderstood the original points, so now you're on a legalese tirade in an attempt to save face.
The original points were a load of nonsense. Your follow-ups relied on dishonesty. Thus, you have little in the way of credibility.


Quote:
Debating with someone in such a mental state is never a good use of time.
Yet you spent the better part of an afternoon doing just that.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:02 PM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,664,569 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
But that is neither a desire for no government whatsoever nor a prescripiton for anarchy. As I said, some government is certainly vital. What the Libertarians are saying is that while the government can and should do things such as arrest people for murder and sustain armed forces, they have no business telling us we cannot smoke pot as its an activitiy that only harms the smoker, not the individual. If the individual chooses the risk, so be it.

Libertarianism is a desire for less government not no government. That's all it is. Its so simple it confuses people.

Most people in the USA and pretty much nobody in Europe truly understands Libertarianism- ironic as it came from Europe. I would suggest you read the best works of Friedrich von Hayek as well as Milton Friedman, the twin pillars of Libertarian thought, at least in the 20th Century.
I'm a long-standing member of the Libertarian party and am well aware of the tenets of libertarianism. However, I also know the anarchists make up a faction of the Libertarian party. Just go to a libertarian forum and you'll find plenty. You have provided an adequate qualification to the definition to explain mainstream libertarianism, however without the qualifications you provided the definition you quoted can just as easily describe an anarchist.

"A person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action. " Do not anarchist uphold this same principle? They certainly do, even to the point of advocating no government at all for any reason.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,694,253 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
I'm a long-standing member of the Libertarian party and am well aware of the tenets of libertarianism. However, I also know the anarchists make up a faction of the Libertarian party. Just go to a libertarian forum and you'll find plenty. You have provided an adequate qualification to the definition to explain mainstream libertarianism, however without the qualifications you provided the definition you quoted can just as easily describe an anarchist.

"A person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action. " Do not anarchist uphold this same principle? They certainly do, even to the point of advocating no government at all for any reason.
I've run into the same thing... quite a few within the LP want to use the LP as a means to the end. But of course there are others like myself who aren't in the LP, but often vote for LP candidates that feel that there's more value and justification for government the closer it is to home. I'm much more likely to vote for an LP candidate for federal or state than local government.
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:54 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,017 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I do not think anarchists and libertarians have much in common.
There are definitely libertarian anarchists. Check out THE MARKET FOR LIBERTY, a really interesting book arguing the case for anarchism. It's on [url=http://www.mises.org]Ludwig von Mises Institute Home[/url]. Also, Murray Rothbard, a major Libertarian intellectual / economist was an anarchist. The problem is, the word "anarchist" has negative connotations. Libertarian anarchists, or free market anarchists, or "voluntaryists", use the word to mean a society in which NO group has the right to initiate force.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:42 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,632 times
Reputation: 10
Ron Paul once switched over to the LP, then changed back in order to get re-elected under the Republican ticket. He does not, however, have the true capital "L" libertarian trademarks.
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:58 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,216 times
Reputation: 10
Attention seeking behavior of Ron Paul works for him.
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:22 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,216 times
Reputation: 10
Libertarians will be on the ballot in most states. Texas will have the most Libertarians on the ballot. Libertarians are the party of peace and prosperity.
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