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Old 11-30-2014, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
11 posts, read 26,537 times
Reputation: 18

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Now, first off I am NOT here to declare racism on ANY side dead or even near dead in America, it still exists and there's no denying that. I'm here to ask opinions on what I've seen based on my life experiences, age 40, having grown up to age 18 in a nearly all white middle or upper middle class suburb in the "rust belt", moving out of parents home right after HS to attend college in the urban area of the metro area I grew up in and since graduating from college, having spent around 3/4 of my life in this same metro area and the other 1/4 living for a while in FL, CT and CA and now having been back in the rust belt for the last 5 years or so. I live in a very urban part of my area and its by choice, I'm not wealthy but have done at least well enough to afford to live in nearly any part of my metro, other than the true upper class areas.

After graduating with my bachelor's degree, I worked for several years in your typical entry level, white collar office jobs (I was a Bus Admin major) and eventually got a real estate license, started doing a little real estate (RE) investing part time and now work full time investing in real estate as a landlord, broker and I renovate and resell homes as well, something I've been doing first as a hobby and now as part of my business since 1999, long before any of these RIDICULOUS TV shows about "house flippers" (a term I hate more than you can possibly imagine as it gives a very fly-by-night impression of the business and the people doing it, besides the fact that those shows are as close to reality as any Winnie the Pooh book is an accurate account of the life of any wild bear living in the wilderness!)

Anyway, my theory about the future of race relations, people living in poverty, whether it is short term, long term or from cradle to grave and how economic status relates to anyone's race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or anything else you can think of is that we are at least gradually and maybe even quickly moving to a nation where it is FAR more based on what people CHOOSE to do with their lives and the many impacts those choices have on their lives.

After I went into business for myself, I had several family members and close friends who owned/operated their own biz and I was fully prepared to put in the sometimes incredibly long hours that are required to get a business of any kind off of the ground and often to keep it running. The idea of putting in literally a 100+ hour work week, especially in the first year or two isn't an aberration or even something that can happen, as far as I've seen, it is something to be expected! What I was aware of, but still didn't realize or maybe even have a clue on, was just how much of that time is spent on activities that have NOTHING or nearly nothing to do with running your actual biz, it is time spent on forms, calls, emails, contacts, etc to satisfy the myriad of regulations and whatever else you MUST do to keep the government happy (at the federal, state and local level) and to avoid having your biz CRUSHED by not conforming.

What drives me absolutely NUTS is just how many people that I've had contact me in response to one of my ads looking for employees (things have been going at least fairly well and I've been hiring people at times) have all sorts of interest in the job, are saying all the correct things, have experience in the field and are ready to work-BUT WANT TO BE PAID EITHER PARTIALLY OR ALL IN CASH-NO PAYROLL, NO REPORTED WAGES!! This is NOT simply to avoid income taxes (which you won't pay much or any of until you start making fairly decent money anyway) it is so they can continue to collect on all of their "bennies"! You see, once I hire them and run the first payroll, as is the law, the hire as well as all wages are reported to the state gov't and I believe the fed gov't isn't informed until year end when they receive their copy of your W-2 form, which any worker paid via payroll receives at year end for their earnings.

These people do not in any way want to lose their EBT/Food Stamps, rent assistance, subsidized day care, straight out cash payments (which I think in my state are only now available to people with dependent kids, but not positive) medicaid or here in WI "BadgerCare" health coverage and whatever else they hand out. I cannot tell you how many times I've had someone literally just hang up on me just as soon as I state that I ONLY pay by check, run a regular payroll and report ALL new hires and ALL wages, as is the law and no, I won't do "part check and part cash" as so many more have forcefully suggested. I admit to being a bit naive and at first thought people were just trying to dodge their income taxes, but now realize that makes little sense as even a single person pays very little in income tax until you're well into the lower middle class and if you have dependents, its well into the middle class. No, that's not it at all, it is ALL ABOUT THE BENEFITS!!! There are a LOT of people out here who will gladly forgo the longer term climb up the "ladder of success" to keep their bennies and hang out near the bottom of that ladder.

This is NOT limited to simply people seeking "regular" hourly or salaried jobs, it also includes a LOT people running their own "small business", either part or sometimes even full time. I've dealt with an incredible number of people in the residential construction biz doing various things like gutters, smaller concrete jobs, landscaping, painting, etc (just to pick a few off the top of my head, there are MANY more) who refuse to do any work paid by check, especially when I tell them that by law I have to issue them a 1099 form annually for anyone I pay over $600 a year for any type of work. Then, the next question EVERY TIME is if I can pay with part check, part cash? NOPE! I keep honest books and away they go, on to do a job for someone who will pay cash!

Besides the construction biz, how about your "personal trainer", ever ask if he or she files any taxes? Yoga instructor? Massage therapist? Maid? Girl or guy that fixed that nasty virus you got on your computer? I could go on and on, but I've already written half of a book here! How many of those people are simply avoiding pay some taxes and how many are really doing it so they can keep their stream of gov't "bennies" flowing??? (You know, the ones WE PAY FOR???)

I'll try to wrap this up, even though there's still more to this story. What really gets me, (and yes I'll be 100% honest here and admit this part surprised me!) Of course, I'd heard about the tired, old stereotype of the "welfare mom" (usually a black woman) with her 10 kids from 8 dads and all of that stuff, living in the ghetto, selling her food stamps (now EBT card) for crack rocks or whatever else, BUT that's just an old stereotype that MUST be flushed immediately! An awful LOT of these cheats I'm talking about are WHITE, same as I am! Actually, it crosses ALL racial and ethnic lines, I see NO correlation to race or anything else in fact one guy (a contractor who refused to work for anything but cash) looked as much like any other middle class, white contractor as you can imagine.

Yet, at the same time, I've worked with a bunch of GREAT people, both as my workers and as contractors I've hired who are black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American and on and on! They gladly take a legal check and the corresponding 1099 tax form as well!

I think we're moving to a society now where we'll see lots of people of ALL groups who are perfectly happy cheating or just simply being lazy and avoiding work, happy to have us "rich people" (ME RICH? yeah right!) pick up the tab for them and all of the kids they pump out, whether they're the mother or father and then the rest of us who are paying for it all! I've got no problem whatsoever with a temporary safety net for people who fall on hard times in our country, but I have a MAJOR problem with people of ANY race, ethnicity or any other group who have no qualms living long term or even for a lifetime and never paying for a damn thing themselves! Also, now maybe some will argue that there was less sex outside of marriage decades ago, but honestly now, people having been having sex since the beginning of time. The first birth control pill came out around 1960, yet now with the pill and 9000 other methods of effective birth control besides condoms, how in the world do we have this EXPLOSION in "unplanned" pregnancies amongst people who cannot even support themselves, let alone any kids?? Do you think it MIGHT have something to do with the fact that if this "accidental" pregnancy somehow happens, we take care of everything for them then???

That's partially based on simply being angry about footing someone else's bill, but much more so because it ought to be damn obvious that it is NOT SUSTAINABLE over the long term! It will result in the USA becoming the newest third world country!

 
Old 11-30-2014, 04:02 AM
 
5,305 posts, read 3,989,092 times
Reputation: 7725
Quote:
Originally Posted by BT5150 View Post
Now, first off I am NOT here to declare racism on ANY side dead or even near dead in America, it still exists and there's no denying that. I'm here to ask opinions on what I've seen based on my life experiences, age 40, having grown up to age 18 in a nearly all white middle or upper middle class suburb in the "rust belt", moving out of parents home right after HS to attend college in the urban area of the metro area I grew up in and since graduating from college, having spent around 3/4 of my life in this same metro area and the other 1/4 living for a while in FL, CT and CA and now having been back in the rust belt for the last 5 years or so. I live in a very urban part of my area and its by choice, I'm not wealthy but have done at least well enough to afford to live in nearly any part of my metro, other than the true upper class areas.

After graduating with my bachelor's degree, I worked for several years in your typical entry level, white collar office jobs (I was a Bus Admin major) and eventually got a real estate license, started doing a little real estate (RE) investing part time and now work full time investing in real estate as a landlord, broker and I renovate and resell homes as well, something I've been doing first as a hobby and now as part of my business since 1999, long before any of these RIDICULOUS TV shows about "house flippers" (a term I hate more than you can possibly imagine as it gives a very fly-by-night impression of the business and the people doing it, besides the fact that those shows are as close to reality as any Winnie the Pooh book is an accurate account of the life of any wild bear living in the wilderness!)

Anyway, my theory about the future of race relations, people living in poverty, whether it is short term, long term or from cradle to grave and how economic status relates to anyone's race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or anything else you can think of is that we are at least gradually and maybe even quickly moving to a nation where it is FAR more based on what people CHOOSE to do with their lives and the many impacts those choices have on their lives.

After I went into business for myself, I had several family members and close friends who owned/operated their own biz and I was fully prepared to put in the sometimes incredibly long hours that are required to get a business of any kind off of the ground and often to keep it running. The idea of putting in literally a 100+ hour work week, especially in the first year or two isn't an aberration or even something that can happen, as far as I've seen, it is something to be expected! What I was aware of, but still didn't realize or maybe even have a clue on, was just how much of that time is spent on activities that have NOTHING or nearly nothing to do with running your actual biz, it is time spent on forms, calls, emails, contacts, etc to satisfy the myriad of regulations and whatever else you MUST do to keep the government happy (at the federal, state and local level) and to avoid having your biz CRUSHED by not conforming.

What drives me absolutely NUTS is just how many people that I've had contact me in response to one of my ads looking for employees (things have been going at least fairly well and I've been hiring people at times) have all sorts of interest in the job, are saying all the correct things, have experience in the field and are ready to work-BUT WANT TO BE PAID EITHER PARTIALLY OR ALL IN CASH-NO PAYROLL, NO REPORTED WAGES!! This is NOT simply to avoid income taxes (which you won't pay much or any of until you start making fairly decent money anyway) it is so they can continue to collect on all of their "bennies"! You see, once I hire them and run the first payroll, as is the law, the hire as well as all wages are reported to the state gov't and I believe the fed gov't isn't informed until year end when they receive their copy of your W-2 form, which any worker paid via payroll receives at year end for their earnings.

These people do not in any way want to lose their EBT/Food Stamps, rent assistance, subsidized day care, straight out cash payments (which I think in my state are only now available to people with dependent kids, but not positive) medicaid or here in WI "BadgerCare" health coverage and whatever else they hand out. I cannot tell you how many times I've had someone literally just hang up on me just as soon as I state that I ONLY pay by check, run a regular payroll and report ALL new hires and ALL wages, as is the law and no, I won't do "part check and part cash" as so many more have forcefully suggested. I admit to being a bit naive and at first thought people were just trying to dodge their income taxes, but now realize that makes little sense as even a single person pays very little in income tax until you're well into the lower middle class and if you have dependents, its well into the middle class. No, that's not it at all, it is ALL ABOUT THE BENEFITS!!! There are a LOT of people out here who will gladly forgo the longer term climb up the "ladder of success" to keep their bennies and hang out near the bottom of that ladder.

This is NOT limited to simply people seeking "regular" hourly or salaried jobs, it also includes a LOT people running their own "small business", either part or sometimes even full time. I've dealt with an incredible number of people in the residential construction biz doing various things like gutters, smaller concrete jobs, landscaping, painting, etc (just to pick a few off the top of my head, there are MANY more) who refuse to do any work paid by check, especially when I tell them that by law I have to issue them a 1099 form annually for anyone I pay over $600 a year for any type of work. Then, the next question EVERY TIME is if I can pay with part check, part cash? NOPE! I keep honest books and away they go, on to do a job for someone who will pay cash!

Besides the construction biz, how about your "personal trainer", ever ask if he or she files any taxes? Yoga instructor? Massage therapist? Maid? Girl or guy that fixed that nasty virus you got on your computer? I could go on and on, but I've already written half of a book here! How many of those people are simply avoiding pay some taxes and how many are really doing it so they can keep their stream of gov't "bennies" flowing??? (You know, the ones WE PAY FOR???)

I'll try to wrap this up, even though there's still more to this story. What really gets me, (and yes I'll be 100% honest here and admit this part surprised me!) Of course, I'd heard about the tired, old stereotype of the "welfare mom" (usually a black woman) with her 10 kids from 8 dads and all of that stuff, living in the ghetto, selling her food stamps (now EBT card) for crack rocks or whatever else, BUT that's just an old stereotype that MUST be flushed immediately! An awful LOT of these cheats I'm talking about are WHITE, same as I am! Actually, it crosses ALL racial and ethnic lines, I see NO correlation to race or anything else in fact one guy (a contractor who refused to work for anything but cash) looked as much like any other middle class, white contractor as you can imagine.

Yet, at the same time, I've worked with a bunch of GREAT people, both as my workers and as contractors I've hired who are black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American and on and on! They gladly take a legal check and the corresponding 1099 tax form as well!

I think we're moving to a society now where we'll see lots of people of ALL groups who are perfectly happy cheating or just simply being lazy and avoiding work, happy to have us "rich people" (ME RICH? yeah right!) pick up the tab for them and all of the kids they pump out, whether they're the mother or father and then the rest of us who are paying for it all! I've got no problem whatsoever with a temporary safety net for people who fall on hard times in our country, but I have a MAJOR problem with people of ANY race, ethnicity or any other group who have no qualms living long term or even for a lifetime and never paying for a damn thing themselves! Also, now maybe some will argue that there was less sex outside of marriage decades ago, but honestly now, people having been having sex since the beginning of time. The first birth control pill came out around 1960, yet now with the pill and 9000 other methods of effective birth control besides condoms, how in the world do we have this EXPLOSION in "unplanned" pregnancies amongst people who cannot even support themselves, let alone any kids?? Do you think it MIGHT have something to do with the fact that if this "accidental" pregnancy somehow happens, we take care of everything for them then???

That's partially based on simply being angry about footing someone else's bill, but much more so because it ought to be damn obvious that it is NOT SUSTAINABLE over the long term! It will result in the USA becoming the newest third world country!
In many parts of the US, it's already a third world country, unfortunately.
 
Old 11-30-2014, 08:55 PM
 
15 posts, read 18,319 times
Reputation: 35
I'm sure your overly long and tiresome post is a veiled anti-Obama tirade. YAWN.

Just remember to save all your canned anger and vitriol for when the S--- really hits the fan in 2016 when Fat Fatty Christie takes the White House and immediately orders up 500,000 American troops to wage "holy war" on Iran, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Then you'll realize who is really destroying this once-great nation from the inside out.
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