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Old 01-04-2008, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,986 posts, read 18,622,082 times
Reputation: 2178

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
so every single criminal is born that way? then why are minorities so overrepresented in prison? every single one of them was born a criminal and nothing could have changed that?
I am talking about the repeaters and murderers. Petty criminals caught once for burglary, or drug charges, probably not that way and can be helped, but repeaters, no I think that is just the way they are. We had a good upbringing, very loved and cared for and my brother just enjoyed the criminal life and couldn't seem to make the right decision to stay out of trouble.
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Old 01-04-2008, 04:51 PM
 
365 posts, read 697,129 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
what i am saying is that something needs to be done before people are this corrupted; like the scared straight program. if not it's just a chain of reaction after reaction after reaction.

i have never been or a jury for a sentence. but my brother was murdered in his own home, in front of his children by the man that was sleeping with his wife. this was 2 weeks before Christmas of 05, the same guy put his feet under my table on thanksgiving before that.

If i spend the rest of my life hating that man, or wishing he was dead, it will be the ruin of me. and it will do no good for anyone... if something was done before hand, i may still have a brother, and i also may have a different outlook on the death penalty that i used to.
Im so sorry about your brother, Cleatis and I hope so much his children and wife are ok. His death sounds like a crime of passion maybe for the killer, I dont think his killer would receive the death penalty but I dont know, I dont know what you could have possible done before hand tho, thats how things like this happen, the evil doers seem to know how to get around innocent people, even right in front of them sometimes at the dinner table, what does the wife say? I would guess your brother knew things and the killer suspected it was going to ruin him or cause your brothers wife to not stay with him, who knows...but to shoot and kill someone in front of their own children takes alot of guts and I hope he gets punished good, I pray that God stays with you, the fact you feel no hate for him even now shows that the Lord has answered you. If you ever have to decide someone elses life, i.e. the death penalty, this will come back to you, but you will see if differently, as it will not be someone you know, I hope. God be with you and your family.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:19 PM
 
3,150 posts, read 8,680,438 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
and if you were an innocent man on the execution block would you sing the same tune?
I certainly wouldn't be happy and I would certainly make every attempt to prove my innocence but I would realize nothing could be done it is the system that I chose... But yes I would sacrifice myself (if need be) in the name of killing off scum bags, Justice must be served. However this can all be avoided... very rarely if at all does a COMPLETELY innocent man get behind bars... there is always a connection. The solution is simple, eliminate that connection or stay away from trouble all together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
not all people being executed are repeat offenders, last time i checked you can get executed for one crime.
If the crime is serious enough then of course they should be executed, whats so difficult to understand about that? I never said a criminal needs to be repeat offender they just need to be an outrageous offender to cement their death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
is the government executing these people against their will or not? did the criminal commit the offense against another's will or not?
I think I understand what you are saying but I don't want to misinterpret, please rephrase if you could...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
getting drunk on emotion and putting someone through a wringer of misery isn't justice, it's vengeance.
We all deal with hard times, there is no excuse for crime... Be the vice, pay the price.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 3,315,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Nope - the State is looking for those who would be willing to enforce the law during any penalty phase
isn't the point of a jury to be a part of the decision?
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,129,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
isn't the point of a jury to be a part of the decision?
The Jury is the decision maker in a death penalty case.

Mind you, they are not obligated to impose the death penalty but, it may be one of the options. Hence why every jury member must be willing to consider the imposition of such penalty
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 3,315,947 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I am talking about the repeaters and murderers. Petty criminals caught once for burglary, or drug charges, probably not that way and can be helped, but repeaters, no I think that is just the way they are. We had a good upbringing, very loved and cared for and my brother just enjoyed the criminal life and couldn't seem to make the right decision to stay out of trouble.
still one needs to find out who these people are, the ones that are the repeat offenders. they can't all be born that way. i will agree however, some people undoubtedly are.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 3,315,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
The Jury is the decision maker in a death penalty case.

Mind you, they are not obligated to impose the death penalty but, it may be one of the options. Hence why every jury member must be willing to consider the imposition of such penalty
still people who are not willing to send a person to death are excluded. if you don't want to send someone to be executed because you may feel guilty, then that says something.

this says that is people don't want others to be executed, then they don't get their say in the matter.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,142,419 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
that's all fine and good, but when they get out they aren't exactly any better than they were when they went in. the point of prison is to teach someone a lesson, not teach them how to be an even tougher criminal.

you chain a dog up and beat it, starve it a little and torture it, chances are then when it gets off the chain they are going to do more damage.
Uhmmm the success rate as it stands is pretty low as it stands. This after all the touchy feel gooders revamped the penal system so that prisoners can feel normal while on the inside. Prison today does not teach them a lesson. Quite the opposite. Prison should cause anyone to tremble with fear at the very thought of going. Gyms, basketball courts,football teams etc. I dont know if that is what I would call a deterent. No a/c heating no warmer than 60degrees in the winter, forced hard labor. Now I would call these a deterent.
People seem to forget that in order to be rehabilitated one must accept that how they think and act are wrong. These guys think everyone else is wrong and prison is a joke.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 3,315,947 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTraik View Post
I certainly wouldn't be happy and I would certainly make every attempt to prove my innocence but I would realize nothing could be done it is the system that I chose... But yes I would sacrifice myself (if need be) in the name of killing off scum bags, Justice must be served. However this can all be avoided... very rarely if at all does a COMPLETELY innocent man get behind bars... there is always a connection. The solution is simple, eliminate that connection or stay away from trouble all together.


i'm sure you would say exactly that on your death bed.


Quote:
If the crime is serious enough then of course they should be executed, whats so difficult to understand about that? I never said a criminal needs to be repeat offender they just need to be an outrageous offender to cement their death.


i could at least live with that, we may not hit the same ground, but no system suits everyone.



Quote:
I think I understand what you are saying but I don't want to misinterpret, please rephrase if you could...


either way, someone is getting killed against their will



Quote:
We all deal with hard times, there is no excuse for crime... Be the vice, pay the price.
never said the criminal needs an excuse. i said that a bunch of emotional people aren't going to make a very sound decision.
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Old 01-04-2008, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,129,498 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
still people who are not willing to send a person to death are excluded. if you don't want to send someone to be executed because you may feel guilty, then that says something.

this says that is people don't want others to be executed, then they don't get their say in the matter.
The Law provides that, in the situation where the death penalty is a possible penalty, and inasmuch as it would require a unanimous decision of the jury to impose such sentence, it is thereby necessary to have everyone willing to at least consider such a sentence.

To allow someone who is opposed, such as yourself, to sit on a jury, would pre-empt the possible imposition of this sentence and that would not make sense –

If you don’t want the death penalty to be imposed you need to petition your particular legislative body to change the sentencing guidelines. The legislature sets the law – they set the sentencing guidelines – not the courts
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