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Old 12-03-2014, 09:01 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,369,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
And if its not?

Do you always think the economy is going to suck?
If inflation is lower than 2%, we have deflationary concerns which indicate a poor economy.

Inflation is economic growth.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,276,395 times
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Take a look at this link provided by OP, and note 'debt per taxpayer' (in the box in the upper left corner).
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

They have it at $153,729. But if you click on the number, they give the calculation as debt divided by the number of taxpayers. But due to the '47%' (actually it was down to 43% last year) who pay zero or negative federal income tax, that number is only half of what it should be.

Hence debt per actual taxpayer is closer to $300,000.

Last year for which I can find the total number of federal income tax filers without digging is 2012: 131 million income tax filers in the US. Taking 18 trillion/(131 million*.46) yields $319,545 debt per taxpayer.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:09 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,845,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
If inflation is lower than 2%, we have deflationary concerns which indicate a poor economy.
no its not..

Gasoline is dropping like a rock, and because of it, costs of all products are going to get cheaper.

If the price of a Big Mac drops from $3.99 to $1, its not a sign of a poor economy, its a sign that things simply got cheaper and more cost effective.

If I can get my grass cut for $50 a month rather than $75 a month, its not due to a poor economy, its because I changed who my lawn supplier is. That other $25 will be spent elsewhere or saved..

Saving money, isnt a sign of a poor economy, cutting costs doesnt result in a poor economy, being efficient, doesnt result in a poor economy. you never know what you are talking about.. You just babble some kook theory that you read about and project its the truth.. its like a broken record
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Inflation is economic growth.
No its not.. Doubling the price of everything, doesnt create a booming economy, in fact it would drain the economy of any disposable income..

There is far more to the economy than just inflation. Again, stop with the kook theories
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:12 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,845,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Hence debt per actual taxpayer is closer to $300,000.
Its actually far worse than that.. Probably 10 times worse since it only calculated the debt and not the unfunded liabilities like Social Security etc..

Our whole government is floated upon taking money it doesnt have to buy votes to continue the ball rolling. At some point, people will expect their money back and when the revenues cant keep up with the obligations, we're bankrupt..
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,753 posts, read 8,109,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I actually believe its doubled, up 100%.. from 9 trillion to 18 trillion

But thats not due to a lack of income, its because of spending..

You just listed various spending, and then equated the problem due to no income, so you know thats true, which makes me wonder why you keep saying the problem is income.
The people that have been put in charge of the pocket book (House Republicans) continue to spend without enough income. They need to increase income to continue to spend on anything the Govt does. Even RR knew he lowered taxes too much and he raised them. Politicians can only spend so they need to have enough income to cover that spending or create debt.

These guys continue to spend, no matter what they need to increase revenue or we can look like Europe and Russia, which do to sanctions and lower oil prices will be headed for recession in 2015.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:16 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,845,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
The people that have been put in charge of the pocket book (House Republicans) continue to spend without enough income. They need to increase income to continue to spend on anything the Govt does. Even RR knew he lowered taxes too much and he raised them. Politicians can only spend so they need to have enough income to cover that spending or create debt.

These guys continue to spend, no matter what they need to increase revenue or we can look like Europe and Russia, which do to sanctions and lower oil prices will be headed for recession in 2015.
Where did you go to school? The House is only in charge of taxes, not spending. Spending can and often does originate in the Senate. The whole budget bill last year which re-opened the government originated in the Senate.

Furthermore, budget proposals first start in the White House which then gets passed onto Congress.

Does the House get off the hook for spending, heck no, but its ridiculous to think the pocketbook is the responsibility of the House..
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:20 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,369,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
no its not..

Gasoline is dropping like a rock, and because of it, costs of all products are going to get cheaper.

If the price of a Big Mac drops from $3.99 to $1, its not a sign of a poor economy, its a sign that things simply got cheaper and more cost effective.

If I can get my grass cut for $50 a month rather than $75 a month, its not due to a poor economy, its because I changed who my lawn supplier is. That other $25 will be spent elsewhere or saved..
Fallacy #1:

You are conflating microeconomics to macroeconomics. Deflation is the general trend of all prices in the economy dropping, not the cost of a Big Mac.

Fallacy #2:

You are assuming gasoline (a result of oil & energy prices, the primary drivers of inflation) is something the government actually controls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Saving money, isnt a sign of a poor economy, cutting costs doesnt result in a poor economy, being efficient, doesnt result in a poor economy. you never know what you are talking about.. You just babble some kook theory that you read about and project its the truth.. its like a broken record
You are simply backwards in your understanding of economics. Lower overall costs on a macroeconomic level are a result of a poor economy, not a cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
No its not.. Doubling the price of everything, doesnt create a booming economy, in fact it would drain the economy of any disposable income..
Correct, it doesn't.

Once again, your economic understanding is backwards. Prices would double due to a rapidly expanding demand for products. That is a rapidly expanding economy (i.e. "booming").

Disposable income has less to do with the economy and more to do with income inequality. The economy can expand without expansion in disposable income. It's been happening for about 40 years. That's exactly what happens when 95% of new income goes to the top 1%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
There is far more to the economy than just inflation. Again, stop with the kook theories
Actually there's not.

Demand causes inflation. Inflation is economic growth. An economy cannot expand without increasing demand for goods and services.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:24 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,369,528 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss View Post
The people that have been put in charge of the pocket book (House Republicans) continue to spend without enough income. They need to increase income to continue to spend on anything the Govt does. Even RR knew he lowered taxes too much and he raised them. Politicians can only spend so they need to have enough income to cover that spending or create debt.
The government doesn't need income.

There has to be a point of origin for dollars. It can't "collect taxes" if there are no dollars floating around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
These guys continue to spend, no matter what they need to increase revenue or we can look like Europe and Russia, which do to sanctions and lower oil prices will be headed for recession in 2015.
Actually Europe is in perpetual recession due to Austerity. Tightening the belt during deflation just makes it worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Its actually far worse than that.. Probably 10 times worse since it only calculated the debt and not the unfunded liabilities like Social Security etc..

Our whole government is floated upon taking money it doesnt have to buy votes to continue the ball rolling. At some point, people will expect their money back and when the revenues cant keep up with the obligations, we're bankrupt..
Please, tell me where I can send the check to pay my "portion" of the national debt.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Salisbury,NC
16,753 posts, read 8,109,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Where did you go to school? The House is only in charge of taxes, not spending. Spending can and often does originate in the Senate. The whole budget bill last year which re-opened the government originated in the Senate.

Furthermore, budget proposals first start in the White House which then gets passed onto Congress.

Does the House get off the hook for spending, heck no, but its ridiculous to think the pocketbook is the responsibility of the House..
It started in the Senate because this Cruz guy took over the leadership of the House. Lets keep up with current events. Keep trying to change recent history.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:37 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,845,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Fallacy #1:

You are conflating microeconomics to macroeconomics. Deflation is the general trend of all prices in the economy dropping, not the cost of a Big Mac.
I used a Big Mac as an example in order to not confuse you. I know dam well what deflation is but just because people are saving more money on a "macroeconomic" scale, doesnt mean we are worse off.

If I can buy a home for $100k rather than $200K, this doesnt mean that I'm worse off than before.. To conclude this is true is idioic..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Fallacy #2:

You are assuming gasoline (a result of oil & energy prices, the primary drivers of inflation) is something the government actually controls.
I made no such assumption, but to conclude that gasoline doesnt affect costs of products is retarded. The government does NOT control inflation, it reacts to it to try to limit the damage.

do you really believe the government controlled the economic crash?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
You are simply backwards in your understanding of economics. Lower overall costs on a macroeconomic level are a result of a poor economy, not a cause.
Bull ****..

If homes drop in price 20% and incomes drop 10%, we have deflation but people are in a far better position than before. To conclude that because **** costs more now than last year, we're better is asinine..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Correct, it doesn't.

Once again, your economic understanding is backwards. Prices would double due to a rapidly expanding demand for products. That is a rapidly expanding economy (i.e. "booming").
I didnt state over what period of time this doubling would occur. Big macs are now 4x as expensive as they were 20 years ago.. Are we in a better financial situation now than 20 years ago? no.. just because **** costs more, doesnt mean we're better. In fact we have far more poverty now, but you think we're booming...

Again, asinine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Disposable income has less to do with the economy and more to do with income inequality. The economy can expand without expansion in disposable income. It's been happening for about 40 years. That's exactly what happens when 95% of new income goes to the top 1%.
more bull crap. Bill Gates for example has huge wealth inequality compared to his employees, but his employees are making 6 figures a year..

What exactly do you think the rich do with their money? Put it under their mattress? Asinine..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Actually there's not.

Demand causes inflation. Inflation is economic growth. An economy cannot expand without increasing demand for goods and services.
A minute ago you said government controls inflation...

But here you got it close to correct.

Economic activity is what grows the economy, not inflation. If I pay you $50 to cut my grass and you pay me $50 for a book I have for sale, this results in $100 economic activity but there isnt any inflation taking place from the transaction. Inflation would be if you would have charged me $45 to cut my grass and that very same book last year was $45..

Thats a 10% inflation rate but the exact same economic activity. There was no increase in a demand for goods or services... and no one is better off because the price of **** just rose 10%

Again, stop the kook theories you read on a kracker Jack box..

Last edited by pghquest; 12-03-2014 at 09:46 AM..
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