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Old 01-06-2008, 09:49 AM
 
4,050 posts, read 6,116,214 times
Reputation: 1574

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Crap like this is why people are tired of homosexual issues. As I stated previously, I've seen in many places how homosexuals trash single parents to build themselves up, and it offends me as a single parent. And even when religion isn't brought into a discussion, your special interest group calls people "religious nuts" simply because they disagree with you. This also offends me because I am a Christian and your special interest group has pushed hard at my church (Episcopal/Anglican) to bless your unions.

So, I ask myself, why on Earth should we support you and your causes when all you do is trash people? I supported civil unions and such but, frankly, when I listen to your rhetoric and see the way you treat those who disagree with you, I shut down and hope your tactics don't work. Not for RELIGIOUS reasons, but for the same reasons that I always hope that bullies don't win. Have you considered that perhaps people who wonder whether gay couples should adopt children have been on the receiving end of gays' anger and outrage at those who disagree with them?
It's really unfair to judge an entire group of people based on some you've debated with who have resorted to attacks like you're describing.
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Boise
4,426 posts, read 5,897,628 times
Reputation: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Crap like this is why people are tired of homosexual issues. As I stated previously, I've seen in many places how homosexuals trash single parents to build themselves up, and it offends me as a single parent. And even when religion isn't brought into a discussion, your special interest group calls people "religious nuts" simply because they disagree with you. This also offends me because I am a Christian and your special interest group has pushed hard at my church (Episcopal/Anglican) to bless your unions.

So, I ask myself, why on Earth should we support you and your causes when all you do is trash people? I supported civil unions and such but, frankly, when I listen to your rhetoric and see the way you treat those who disagree with you, I shut down and hope your tactics don't work. Not for RELIGIOUS reasons, but for the same reasons that I always hope that bullies don't win. Have you considered that perhaps people who wonder whether gay couples should adopt children have been on the receiving end of gays' anger and outrage at those who disagree with them?
watch out for all those gay bully's.... you're entire post is either from a twisted point of view or it is meant to be propaganda.... gay people do not trash single parents or anyone for that matter when it comes to adoption... I have no beef with anyone living their lives... its when someone else is hindering the rights of gays when it is not their place to do so.. is when I as a gay person speak out....and the main groups that are all about demonizing gay people are religious christian nut jobs for the most part.... I don't automatically think everyone who is christian is this way though because you see.. my own family is christian, but they've put their pride aside to understand the issue because they happen to have a gay family member... for this they have become better people, and better christians...

I think that it is perfectly ok for someone to disagree... here is where my problem is though.. if gay rights are being put to a vote among the masses... then what people individually think becomes an issue... Whenever equal rights for gays comes into discussion, some right wing group makes it a point to put it to vote, and of course it gets shot down and then they want to call it "democratic process". Civil Rights are not something to be voted on... It is something that gets fought for in the courts. But anytime a court interprets the constitution properly in favour of gay rights... they get shot down and called "rogue judges". So you tell me where a gay person is suppose to come from on this issue? frankly I don't care that you disagree with me or other gays... because you're really not that important... but what I do care.. is if and when I adopt kids.. I would appreciate it if you didn't fill your kids heads with such hate... so that my kids actually have a chance at making friends and they don't recieve the same hate by association...
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:44 AM
 
4,050 posts, read 6,116,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
...gay people do not trash single parents or anyone for that matter when it comes to adoption...
This is not to say that I don't agree with your post, but I disagree with that on some level. I have seen some people demean single parents to promote their agenda. It's easy to say "Two gay parents are much better for a child than a single parent," or something similar. This is self-centered, obviously. The idea isn't to bring down single parents in order to make gay families more palatable to people who are on the fence about it. If other people who are taking care of their children just as well as the next person have to be brought down in the process, it's a pretty bad argument. I'm not saying I've never in my life done anything comparable, but to try to prove one's point simply by criticizing another group of people for no good reason is no way to debate. I'm guessing teatime has encountered one too many people who will do that.

But like I said before, I still think it's really unfair to judge all gay people based on the ones who are irresponsible debaters.
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Old 01-06-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,548,061 times
Reputation: 20164
Maybe the real question should be should people who make bad parents be able to adopt , Gay or Straight?

Homophobics, racists, bigots, Xenophobics, intolerant people, extremists of any kind etc... Who needs those people raising kids to be the same...
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 17,941,130 times
Reputation: 3729
Quote:
Originally Posted by boiseguy View Post
watch out for all those gay bully's.... you're entire post is either from a twisted point of view or it is meant to be propaganda.... gay people do not trash single parents or anyone for that matter when it comes to adoption... I have no beef with anyone living their lives... its when someone else is hindering the rights of gays when it is not their place to do so.. is when I as a gay person speak out....and the main groups that are all about demonizing gay people are religious christian nut jobs for the most part.... I don't automatically think everyone who is christian is this way though because you see.. my own family is christian, but they've put their pride aside to understand the issue because they happen to have a gay family member... for this they have become better people, and better christians...

I think that it is perfectly ok for someone to disagree... here is where my problem is though.. if gay rights are being put to a vote among the masses... then what people individually think becomes an issue... Whenever equal rights for gays comes into discussion, some right wing group makes it a point to put it to vote, and of course it gets shot down and then they want to call it "democratic process". Civil Rights are not something to be voted on... It is something that gets fought for in the courts. But anytime a court interprets the constitution properly in favour of gay rights... they get shot down and called "rogue judges". So you tell me where a gay person is suppose to come from on this issue? frankly I don't care that you disagree with me or other gays... because you're really not that important... but what I do care.. is if and when I adopt kids.. I would appreciate it if you didn't fill your kids heads with such hate... so that my kids actually have a chance at making friends and they don't recieve the same hate by association...
See, here it goes again. I can't object to your name-calling and false characterizations of people (even if I support some of your issues) without being called "twisted," accused of spreading "propaganda," and EVEN accused of "filling my kid's head with hate." I have taught my son never to name-call or assault another person's dignity and to respect other people and their opinions. If you would teach children that humiliating others who disagree with them is right and proper, then it would be best if you didn't have children, and I don't care if you're homosexual, heterosexual or a single parent.

And how on Earth did you come to those conclusions about someone you don't even know and about one who has only criticized the tactics used, not the character of the people using them? Yes, name-calling and trashing another's character IS bullying. And it's certainly no way to win arguments or support.

As the previous poster indicated, I have read many articles (even some posts here) and heard many speeches claiming that children need two parents, either heterosexual or homosexual, and the only really problematic homes are those of single parents. This is supported by the homosexual community to advance their cause by making those of us who are single parents the "dysfunctional" ones. That's simply not fair. Make your case on your own merits, not by disparaging other parents who are doing the best they can with the lot in life they've been given.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:36 PM
 
4,050 posts, read 6,116,214 times
Reputation: 1574
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
As the previous poster indicated, I have read many articles (even some posts here) and heard many speeches claiming that children need two parents, either heterosexual or homosexual, and the only really problematic homes are those of single parents. This is supported by the homosexual community to advance their cause by making those of us who are single parents the "dysfunctional" ones. That's simply not fair. Make your case on your own merits, not by disparaging other parents who are doing the best they can with the lot in life they've been given.
Well, count me as a member of the community who does not support that line of thinking that means disparaging single parents to further my cause. So your generalization doesn't work.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 17,941,130 times
Reputation: 3729
It's hardly a "generalization" if it's a known tactic. And since when did something become a "generalization" if there was not 100 percent agreement/support in the group? And it's OK for that particular interest group to characterize anyone who disagrees with them as "religious nuts" or "haters"?

Whatever. I don't care. They can say what they want about single parents but it doesn't make it true nor does it really help their cause. Nor will going shrill or name-calling. People tune out that nonsense, as I intend to do.
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:27 PM
 
4,050 posts, read 6,116,214 times
Reputation: 1574
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
It's hardly a "generalization" if it's a known tactic.
I thought you were saying that you don't support the cause of gay rights because you're tired of that tactic. That would include people who aren't using that tactic that you're not supporting. Everyone would have to suffer, not just the ones who are criticizing you.

Quote:
And it's OK for that particular interest group to characterize anyone who disagrees with them as "religious nuts" or "haters"?
IMO no, because not all homophobes are "religious nuts."
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Old 01-06-2008, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 17,941,130 times
Reputation: 3729
If you actually read what I wrote, I said that I supported civil unions and other gay issues but I shut down when I saw the tactics used. I also said that the tactics are what make Americans tired of it. Doesn't mean I changed my mind -- it simply means I won't be joining in with the advocacy or speaking out about it anymore.

So, do what y'all will. I don't care. But accept some of the responsibility when average Americans get disgusted and really don't want to engage with the issue anymore.
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:56 PM
 
4,050 posts, read 6,116,214 times
Reputation: 1574
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
If you actually read what I wrote, I said that I supported civil unions and other gay issues but I shut down when I saw the tactics used. I also said that the tactics are what make Americans tired of it. Doesn't mean I changed my mind -- it simply means I won't be joining in with the advocacy or speaking out about it anymore.
Then I misinterpreted "shut down" in your post. I think it's sad to stop speaking for a good cause because some members of that group offended you. I would speak up for a person's right to be a Christian in the face of opposition to that despite the innumerable Christians who have criticized me for being an atheist and a lesbian.

Quote:
So, do what y'all will. I don't care. But accept some of the responsibility when average Americans get disgusted and really don't want to engage with the issue anymore.
I refuse to accept any responsibility for that. I wasn't using the tactics you described. Blame individuals, not the whole group.
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