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My world view is realistic yours is fantastical. But your go right ahead and continue to rationalize your perceptions.
Except that you are the one who has to rationalize. I'm not doing any rationalization. I'm stating simple principles. You are offering up reasons why torture is a "realistic" solution to problems. REASONS = RATIONALIZATION. A principle against torture needs no rationalization. It simply is a principle.
I'm not the one asserting that torture saved lives. The people asserting that need to provide the proof. By the way, I'm not even left wing so don't assume that I get my info from left wing media or blogs.
I don't care about proof but the potential that US lives could saved.
Remember the guy who shot the two police officers and then hid in the woods? He could have killed again. Would you have been ok torturing his parents to find out where he was hiding? Assume a neighbor told the police the parents knew where he was hiding.
Yes. Harboring a fugitive is illegal to begin with. Using EITs to get that information would have been totally justifiable.
I just don't understand all this empathy for murderers.....
If the potential exists that wiring the nuts of 100 terrorists for sound might save one US life, I say crank up the voltage.
Then you should realize that when we act as badly as terrorists by engaging in torture, we create more hatred toward Americans, and we create more terrorists.
Then you should realize that when we act as badly as terrorists by engaging in torture, we create more hatred toward Americans, and we create more terrorists.
Wouldn't matter.
They hate us for what we are, not what we do. Anything else is just excuses.
Torture isn't about serving a greater good. It's about hatred and anger and frustration. Humans act out of hatred and anger and frustration. Humans torture one another. Not to get information. But to get even. And I've always thought that it's wrong, not just because of the harm it does to the tortured, but because doing something like that to another human being cannot help but harm the person doing the torturing. It takes away their sense of humanity, it demands that they silence any empathy they have, it forces them to see others not as human beings but as a thing upon which they have to inflict pain and suffering. Any purpose that is offered is just a rationalization. Because we can and do achieve those ends by other means. And because we know that torture is pointless unless you already have that information, and are only seeking confirmation. Otherwise, the tortured could tell you ANYTHING, and the tortured will say ANYTHING, to get the pain to stop. But the person being tortured is just as committed to their cause as you are to yours. So ANYTHING but the truth is certainly an option for someone being tortured, and that required the torturers to waste time proving the information is not true.
How many "Coexist" stickers do you have on your Prius?
The use of EITs is to get the person to break. I'm sure every person exposed to EITs goes into it thinking "I'm tough enough, I can handle this, I'm not gonna give them anything"
Well, we'll see about that.
Plus, there are ways of corroborating the truth. So, giving false info, knowing that the EIT is going to be worse the next time, you're probably better off being truthful.
That's true if all you care about is yourself. But if you are committed to a cause, to something besides yourself, then you might choose to hold out. Especially if your family could end up being harmed by the group you belong to if you choose to betray them. And if the information you have isn't time-sensitive, then why would you be tortured? Why wouldn't your captors take their time getting information from you?
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