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You'll find more news with Muslim leaders preaching death to America. That's why Americans say the Muslim community needs to be more vocal against terrorism.
True, the hate and fear-based side does a much better job blanketing the internet and TV and newspapers with their anti-Muslim propaganda. That's why it's so difficult to get the reality across to people. You have to actually seek out objective news, not just switch on Fox and get your daily dose of outrage about people you've been told you should hate.
True, the hate and fear-based side does a much better job blanketing the internet and TV and newspapers with their anti-Muslim propaganda. That's why it's so difficult to get the reality across to people. You have to actually seek out objective news, not just switch on Fox and get your daily dose of outrage about people you've been told you should hate.
I was in the Army in 10th Mountain Division deployed to Iraq and I spent some time in Kuwait as well. The problem with posters on here is that they haven't seen what the middle east is really like. There beliefs are very different then the developed world's. The only two countries that were secular in the middle east is Turkey (which is moving away from being secular) and the other was Iraq. Problem with Iraq in this regard is that it being secular was done through murder and brutality. It was in essence just a house of cards waiting to collapse. When I was deployed women were being killed in mass and thrown in ditches in Iraq for not wearing the Hijab. A generation ago a women could divorce her husband, start her own business, and walk around wearing a skirt showing off there legs. Now they will get killed over that.
All of the governments in Muslim Countries have laws against apostasy. In the middle east they generally kill you if you leave Islam regardless if it's conversion to another religion or just coming out as an atheist. At best in the middle east you can hope to be put in prison and hope you don't killed in there for not being Muslim. The mentality is like that of the dark ages. European Muslim immigrants from the Middle East are actually more in line with Muslims in majority Muslim countries in the middle east then they are with Muslims in the United States.
The differences between Muslims in the United States vs elsewhere in the world are pretty profound.
1. Quite a few Muslims are non practicing in the United States compared to other places in the world.
2. Muslims in the United States tend to be very educated and wealthy. They tend to have higher education and make more money. The same goes for most Muslim immigrants to the United States since immigrating to the United States is quite expensive compared to immigrating to Europe for example.
3. A lot of them come to the United States to make money and are able to accomplish that due to labor laws being less protectionist in the United States allowing hiring and firing to be done very quickly compared to Europe. In Europe it's harder for Muslim immigrants to get jobs there due to differences in labor laws.
4. Muslims in the United States don't primarily come from just one or two countries...they come from many. So there is growing non denominational Muslims in the US which is very different from the Muslim World. Which means it's harder to impose a strict hardliner culture since Muslims come from different backgrounds and generally aren't united.
5. Muslims in the United States can't segregate themselves from society in the United States like they can in Europe due to Muslims not being from only one or two countries. So they have to interact with the rest of society where as in Europe they tend be much more segregated.
Now having just stated 5 differences between Muslims in the United States vs Elsewhere in the world you would think I wouldn't mind mass Muslim immigration to the United States. That's not the case though. The reason I'm not for mass Muslim immigration to the United States is because the United States is the exception to the rule...not the norm. My view is Muslim immigration in the United States should be very low in numbers to the United States and that they should be wealthy and educated and should be asked about there beliefs with the most secular or non religious allowed to come to the United States. In the United States we get most of our immigrants from Latin America and non Muslim countries in Asia with the UK being in the top 20 immigrant countries as well. So the vast majority of our immigrants are Christian with some being Hindus and Buddhists. I think we should keep it that way and lessen what immigration we have from Muslim countries to more than what we have now.
I'm paying attention and it makes me wonder why is it so important to you to defend Christianity?
So...because I pointed out that child sex abuse was handled differently, unfortunately, in previous generations this somehow equates to "defend[ing] Christianity"? I guess you think that only Christians engage in sexual abuse of children? No? Then your remark is entirely ridiculous.
Yes profiling does happen, i agree to a certain extent of it for our own security purposes dont get me wrong but it does seem to get out of hand at times. Just sayin.
See the problem with your response is that its all about YOU, and most people are not you. My answer is not what YOU would do so you are saying i am being too general or only giving me options that YOU think is correct. I dont care what other people do in the name of religion , people like that are extremists and need to seek mental help. I cant help or control a psychopath. Why do i need to leave my religion ? Im a stronger man then that , i dont walk around in shame, im proud of who i am and my religion. I wouldnt sit there and badger someone because of bad apples, and i sure as hell wouldnt demand people stand up or leave their religion.
Im not a preacher , im a family guy and business entrepreneur. We have muslim groups and organizations that speak out against the bad apples it just doesnt make mainstream media Go to a mosque and speak to anyone there, they will educate you. The problem is that you want me to do something just to make you feel better, why ? If you cant see the difference between a terrorist regardless religion and just a normal person then i think you have a personal problem that needs to be worked on.
Again, as i mentioned the people in the middle east have been stuck in a stone age for a long time. I believe in choice and freedoms. If you want to do all that fine then so be it, but if you dont then so be it as well. In the western world as you claim we have choices so whatever one picks its up to them. Not everyone agrees or thinks alike with things, i dont agree or like things that some muslims do but hey thats their choice. Stop trying to act like nothing wrong has happened in America, we all know there is wrong doing all over the world regardless the religion.
I dunno what Italians you know but i know back in NJ a lot of them still do, there is nothing wrong with it. It even happens with other cultures as well , its more of a culture thing then a religion thing if that makes any sense to you.
Response to paragraph #2 --- If you read what I wrote, I said that leaving your faith would be option #1. The other option would be to work to weed out the bad apples in the group. So, in other words, you are saying that you are refusing to work to weed out the bad apples in Islam because it isn't your problem. Okay. Got it.
Response to paragraph #3 ---Not all mosques are created equal---and you know this, too. Some are lead by radical imams. If I were even allowed to enter a mosque lead by a radical, I would be educated in the ways of terror. There is a Somali man in the Twin Cities who devotes his life trying to keep kids from joining terrorist groups. He works alone and has to plead with other Muslims to give him money to keep his work going. A few help him out financially but none have offered to join him doing this important work. In fact, he has encountered some mosques who refuse to let him set foot in them when he tells them he wants to work with kids to keep them from going into terrorist groups.
Response to paragraph #4 --- I didn't say that there weren't Italian-Americans who don't marry other Italian-Americans. I merely pointed out that there isn't the familial pressure to marry into their own ethnic group. Can you say the same thing for Muslims? If you wanted to marry a non-Muslim who didn't want to convert to your faith, would your family and Muslim friends accept this?
I was in the Army in 10th Mountain Division deployed to Iraq and I spent some time in Kuwait as well. The problem with posters on here is that they haven't seen what the middle east is really like. There beliefs are very different then the developed world's. The only two countries that were secular in the middle east is Turkey (which is moving away from being secular) and the other was Iraq. Problem with Iraq in this regard is that it being secular was done through murder and brutality. It was in essence just a house of cards waiting to collapse. When I was deployed women were being killed in mass and thrown in ditches in Iraq for not wearing the Hijab. A generation ago a women could divorce her husband, start her own business, and walk around wearing a skirt showing off there legs. Now they will get killed over that.
All of the governments in Muslim Countries have laws against apostasy. In the middle east they generally kill you if you leave Islam regardless if it's conversion to another religion or just coming out as an atheist. At best in the middle east you can hope to be put in prison and hope you don't killed in there for not being Muslim. The mentality is like that of the dark ages. European Muslim immigrants from the Middle East are actually more in line with Muslims in majority Muslim countries in the middle east then they are with Muslims in the United States.
The differences between Muslims in the United States vs elsewhere in the world are pretty profound.
1. Quite a few Muslims are non practicing in the United States compared to other places in the world.
2. Muslims in the United States tend to be very educated and wealthy. They tend to have higher education and make more money. The same goes for most Muslim immigrants to the United States since immigrating to the United States is quite expensive compared to immigrating to Europe for example.
3. A lot of them come to the United States to make money and are able to accomplish that due to labor laws being less protectionist in the United States allowing hiring and firing to be done very quickly compared to Europe. In Europe it's harder for Muslim immigrants to get jobs there due to differences in labor laws.
4. Muslims in the United States don't primarily come from just one or two countries...they come from many. So there is growing non denominational Muslims in the US which is very different from the Muslim World. Which means it's harder to impose a strict hardliner culture since Muslims come from different backgrounds and generally aren't united.
5. Muslims in the United States can't segregate themselves from society in the United States like they can in Europe due to Muslims not being from only one or two countries. So they have to interact with the rest of society where as in Europe they tend be much more segregated.
Now having just stated 5 differences between Muslims in the United States vs Elsewhere in the world you would think I wouldn't mind mass Muslim immigration to the United States. That's not the case though. The reason I'm not for mass Muslim immigration to the United States is because the United States is the exception to the rule...not the norm. My view is Muslim immigration in the United States should be very low in numbers to the United States and that they should be wealthy and educated and should be asked about there beliefs with the most secular or non religious allowed to come to the United States. In the United States we get most of our immigrants from Latin America and non Muslim countries in Asia with the UK being in the top 20 immigrant countries as well. So the vast majority of our immigrants are Christian with some being Hindus and Buddhists. I think we should keep it that way and lessen what immigration we have from Muslim countries to more than what we have now.
Bold: Or maybe just choose to forget? But yeah, most Americans probaly don't try to hide when they sleep or got that sharp pain in their ears when bullets fly past their heads... unless they're vets or lived in the Middle East. America is paradise by comparison.
Anyway, I honestly can't find anything in this post to debate.
And I think you may be totally right about the random American Muslim thing. There isn't much terrorism here (in the US) but in the Caucasus (especially Chechnya and Dagestan) there's always serious issues and even as far north as Volgograd last New Years. They're not random and they have Salafist-takfiri jihads. There's even been terror attacks in Moscow and issues with Tajiks. It got worse after they found that stupid statue in Chechnya. If Navalny was president, he'd nuke that statue.
And you're right about Erdogan. Women are starting to wear tradition Muslim gear in Turkey and he made massive arrests of Gulen supporters. Gulen was the one chance that Turkey had to become a true secular Democracy but no. Now it will just be another Middle East totalitarian state. I still don't get why Putin is supporting that... except the new gas pipeline. Imo, it won't be worth that.
But you're also right that Muslim integration is happening correctly in the US and it's probaly the only way it can really work anywhere else.
A moderate Muslim doesn't exist. All Muslims have murder in their hearts and if one is so stupid as to believe a Muslim would fight for a Christian's right to practice his religion they need to move to Dearborn for six months.
I lived in metro Detroit for the first 25 years of my life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Dearborn--which incidentally has 4 mosques and 29 churches.
I lived in metro Detroit for the first 25 years of my life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Dearborn--which incidentally has 4 mosques and 29 churches.
Wow. 4 Mosques vs 29 churches in Dearborn, MI that is quite a ratio for such a large Muslim population. One would think those churches would be firebombed on a regular basis. /sarcasm
I lived in metro Detroit for the first 25 years of my life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Dearborn--which incidentally has 4 mosques and 29 churches.
It's a fabulous town. Love visiting Dearborn when i'm in the Metro.
The boys at Al Ameer get a heads up when i'm coming over to eat.
Response to paragraph #2 --- If you read what I wrote, I said that leaving your faith would be option #1. The other option would be to work to weed out the bad apples in the group. So, in other words, you are saying that you are refusing to work to weed out the bad apples in Islam because it isn't your problem. Okay. Got it.
Yea you are giving me 2 options ? LOL who are you again ? Each individual has the right to live their life they want here in America, so i live they way i want just like you do. Im sorry but as i mentioned before i am not a religious, nor do i have the time and money to spend worry about weeding out bad apples in a population of millions. That is why we have homeland security , to keep an eye on ALL the bad appled regardless who they are or where they are from. Yes its not my problem, why in the world would it be my problem because of some uneducated stone age morons ? They dont represent what a muslim is about. The problem is that you are so focused on the negative and cant seem to understand that there are bad people in this WORLD. I dont see you doing anything for your religion whatever it might be.
Response to paragraph #3 ---Not all mosques are created equal---and you know this, too. Some are lead by radical imams. If I were even allowed to enter a mosque lead by a radical, I would be educated in the ways of terror. There is a Somali man in the Twin Cities who devotes his life trying to keep kids from joining terrorist groups. He works alone and has to plead with other Muslims to give him money to keep his work going. A few help him out financially but none have offered to join him doing this important work. In fact, he has encountered some mosques who refuse to let him set foot in them when he tells them he wants to work with kids to keep them from going into terrorist groups.
Nothing in this world is created equal , if you think its a perfect world then you need to wake up. I can say the same for churches, but for the most part i am sure preachers and imams are there for the good. I have never met any imams or been to any mosques that support terrorists groups or networks. So i dont know where you are seeing this. I dont know how twin cities does things but i can assure you the mosques in NJ , CT, and NY dont have a problem with support.
Response to paragraph #4 --- I didn't say that there weren't Italian-Americans who don't marry other Italian-Americans. I merely pointed out that there isn't the familial pressure to marry into their own ethnic group. Can you say the same thing for Muslims? If you wanted to marry a non-Muslim who didn't want to convert to your faith, would your family and Muslim friends accept this?
It actually happens very often, more then you would think but i doubt you have enough muslim friends to know this. Its not about being pressured, the reason why families insist is to keep the culture/ religion passed down and make family events and gatherings easier/smoother. Like Xmas and easter, we dont celebrate those days, nor do we go to a church , but we have other holidays and mosques. Thats why families are like that so there isnt so much confusion. Which is understandable BUT i know people that have married non muslims and they are getting along just fine. Some people are old fashioned and some people are not, its just choice. Again you are comparing only what you know and thinking thats how the world works , think out of the box a bit, the Italians i know still stick with Italians , some stray but they like to keep it traditional. I can flip this around and as you the same, ask a christian or catholic family if they would be okay with their daughter or son marrying a muslim ? See how that works. Some might say okay but i bet a majority would still want their kids to marry into the same ethnic group. No big deal
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Go to a mosque and speak to anyone there, they will educate you. The problem is that you want me to do something just to make you feel better, why ? If you cant see the difference between a terrorist regardless religion and just a normal person then i think you have a personal problem that needs to be worked on.
