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You refuse to do your own research and whine about it. I even gave you a good starting point. Are you having trouble believing that "cutting vacations" happen?
Where did I say that Jihadist behavior was "common"?
They know if a woman is on her period because she gets asked. Have you ever read "Not Without My Daughter"? Perhaps you should. It's not illegal to bar a woman from attending a mosque when she's having her period but why would anyone condone that behavior?
In each case, enlightened Muslims that I have met and read about tend to be secular. They say they're Muslim but don't attend a mosque. Besides, those Muslims---especially women---who speak out against all that is negative about Islam, are often barred from going to mosques. Not only that but they have fatwas put upon them (death sentences).
Why would I go into the religion forums? Sure, there are those who think that all Christians need to belong to a church, just as there are those who say all Muslims need to belong to a mosque. And you point is, what exactly?
This is a quote from you saying it was quite common in this country (for Muslims to send women on "cutting vacations"):
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Sorry, Joh, but they are "moderate Muslims". "Cutting" is quite common in Islamic nations. Since it is quite common, then you can't say that it is only "radical Muslims" who subject their daughters to this.
And, those stories are quite common in this country. I've heard enough of them and they leave me feeling such sorrow for those girls and women.
I'm not having trouble believing "cutting vacations". I'm having trouble see the connection with "cutting vacations" and Muslims. The links provided talked about Africa not Muslims. Might Muslims have been involved? It is a possibility. But who is to know whether one American Muslim is doing this or 100,000? You have still yet to provide evidence to your claim that it is common among Muslims in this country.
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Where did I say that Jihadist behavior was "common"?
See the above quote I made from your previous post.
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They know if a woman is on her period because she gets asked. Have you ever read "Not Without My Daughter"? Perhaps you should. It's not illegal to bar a woman from attending a mosque when she's having her period but why would anyone condone that behavior?
That book is actually on my list of books to read but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I find that behavior to be strange and I certainly don't agree with it but it doesn't make Muslims radical because they won't let a women into a Mosque when she is on her period. I doubt it happens at all Mosques around the country either. I'm looking forward to reading that book though. Also women can just lie and say they aren't on their period. There is no way of actually knowing without doing something illegal.
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In each case, enlightened Muslims that I have met and read about tend to be secular. They say they're Muslim but don't attend a mosque. Besides, those Muslims---especially women---who speak out against all that is negative about Islam, are often barred from going to mosques. Not only that but they have fatwas put upon them (death sentences).
Maybe this is true in some cases (probably mostly in countries that are close to 100% Islam), but something tells me it doesn't happen here much. There have been quite a few Muslims who have spoken out against radicals (see OP) and I haven't heard too many stories about fatwas being put on them. (not saying it doesn't happen)
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Why would I go into the religion forums? Sure, there are those who think that all Christians need to belong to a church, just as there are those who say all Muslims need to belong to a mosque. And you point is, what exactly?
I was responding to this part of your previous post.
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Most of the time when one sees families this enlightened, they are Muslim in name only. They don't belong to a Mosque but still consider themselves to be Muslims. Just like there are people who consider themselves to be Christians but don't belong to a church.
You seem to be saying here that people who consider themselves Christians but don't go to church aren't Christian (because they don't go to church, hence the Christian forum link that talks about whether Christians need to go to church or not). Shouldn't have really included that because it detracted from the main question I was raising. These were the main questions I had:
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What makes you think a Muslim has to follow their holy book to a "T" in order to be Muslim? How do you now "enlightened Muslims" don't go to a Mosque? Are you saying only radical Muslims go to a Mosque?
These questions were directed towards you because you said:
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Sure, there are enlightened Muslims in this country. They don't care if their wives or daughters don't cover up. They treat them as equals. Most of the time when one sees families this enlightened, they are Muslim in name only.
Reading comprehension is not this guy's strong point. Better recommend the movie to him so after watching it a few hundred times he might get it.
You have yet to provide anything of value to this thread so I don't even understand why you are here other than to complain about the fact that I like to see claims backed up with facts from the poster making the claim.
The Muslim world needs to do much more than they have.Many clerics opening preach radical version in west and are not really denounced much by other Muslims for fear; IMO. At some point they will have to standup or lose control of their very faith itself. Now often do you read a declared Muslim denouncing events on CD forums. I read a lot of accusations of western lies by some tho.
I don't really understand what you are saying here. But I will respond to the bold. Why do the Muslims have to do much more outside of separating themselves from the radical element in their religion? The moderate Muslim around the world have done nothing wrong and have no need to defend themselves against people who make blanket statement about all Muslims. It is the people making blanket statements about all Muslims who are wrong because there is a really big difference between the radical Muslims and the Moderate Muslims.
You seem to be saying here that people who consider themselves Christians but don't go to church aren't Christian (because they don't go to church, hence the Christian forum link that talks about whether Christians need to go to church or not). Shouldn't have really included that because it detracted from the main question I was raising.
^What? I said no such thing. As a matter of fact, I consider myself to be a Christian but don't belong to a church.
You accuse another post of not providing anything of value to this thread. I say that you should look in the mirror.
Why are you afraid of doing your own research? Are you afraid of finding out what others have told you is actually true?
You've never addressed how badly Muslims treat their women and girls either.
I don't really understand what you are saying here. But I will respond to the bold. Why do the Muslims have to do much more outside of separating themselves from the radical element in their religion? The moderate Muslim around the world have done nothing wrong and have no need to defend themselves against people who make blanket statement about all Muslims. It is the people making blanket statements about all Muslims who are wrong because there is a really big difference between the radical Muslims and the Moderate Muslims.
Why? Seriously?
It's because of things like 9/11. After that happened, I waited to see Muslims marching all over this country loudly denouncing what had happened. Instead, crickets chirping.
Yet, they complain when people so much as look at them cross-eyed and keep looking for every single slight. Groups like CAIR actually encourage them to play the victim.
They need to speak out strongly against terrorism and let everybody know that they not only condemn it but they are committed to weeding out the bad apples. When they remain silent, it's as if they actually accept what is happening and maybe even support it---EVEN IF THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
As an analogy, let's take the Westboro Baptist Church. This group disgusts Christians of all denominations. Not only have they spoken out against them but even pushed hard to try to change the laws so that this vile group didn't show up at fallen soldier's funerals. When that proved to be unsuccessful, they would volunteer to show up at funerals and surrounding them so that mourners didn't have to see them. In other words, instead of just verbally denouncing them, they acted and did as much as possible to if not stop them, marginalize them.
It also sickens me to see brave Muslims left twisting in the wind by their fellow Muslims. I admire those brave Muslims who speak out against terrorism and all the negative aspects of Islam. If so-called "moderate Muslims" hate terrorism, etc., then why aren't they backing and protecting these brave Muslims?
You seem to be saying here that people who consider themselves Christians but don't go to church aren't Christian (because they don't go to church, hence the Christian forum link that talks about whether Christians need to go to church or not). Shouldn't have really included that because it detracted from the main question I was raising.
^What? I said no such thing. As a matter of fact, I consider myself to be a Christian but don't belong to a church.
You accuse another post of not providing anything of value to this thread. I say that you should look in the mirror.
Why are you afraid of doing your own research? Are you afraid of finding out what others have told you is actually true?
You've never addressed how badly Muslims treat their women and girls either.
I'm a Christian also and rarely go to church also. I misinterpreted your post about the Christian and Chruch thing. Sorry not the focus of the thread though.
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You accuse another post of not providing anything of value to this thread. I say that you should look in the mirror.
I find it kinda funny that you are accusing me now of providing nothing to the thread when if it weren't for me there wouldn't be a thread in the first place (I'm the starter of this thread ). Also I haven't made claims in this thread I haven't backed up with evidence defending those claims. If you claim that I have please point out where I have done so.
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Why are you afraid of doing your own research? Are you afraid of finding out what others have told you is actually true?
I'm not afraid to do research (see first post in thread). I just will not do research for other posters when they make a claim and choose not to back it up with facts. When someone makes a claim the burden of proof to that claim lies with them. Philosophic burden of proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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You've never addressed how badly Muslims treat their women and girls either.
3. How many women have actually been sent away from America for this operation and how many came to America having had it done before they stepped foot in America?
4. How many Muslims have sent their daughters overseas to be cut? For that matter how many of the 228,000 women (not all of whom have been cut I'm assuming because that number also includes those who are "at risk" whatever that means) are from Muslim families?
I doubt these numbers actually exist and until they do assumptions will just be made.
I will say two things though. I do not consider Muslims who do this to be moderate so I am not defending them. And I do not think this is exclusively a Muslim issue. From what I have read it seems to be an issue with Africans in general. I would really be interested in seeing how these numbers relate to Muslims here in the USA.
Here I stated Muslims who do this to women I consider radical. My questions in this post were never answered either.
I'm not having trouble believing "cutting vacations". I'm having trouble see the connection with "cutting vacations" and Muslims. The links provided talked about Africa not Muslims. Might Muslims have been involved? It is a possibility. But who is to know whether one American Muslim is doing this or 100,000? You have still yet to provide evidence to your claim that it is common among Muslims in this country.
I pointed you as a place to start doing research. If you did as I said, you would have all your answers to your questions. Another poster gave you links. What more do you want?
cwa---Great links but it's of no use to him as he is in denial about the dark side of Islam, for some unknown reason.
Joh---Food for thought---why do we even have the TSA and invasive security checks? Answer---Islam. In this PC BS climate we have in this country, the TSA doesn't dare single out an obvious Muslim for deeper security, lest they be called "bigots" and have Muslims making complaints.
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). Also I haven't made claims in this thread I haven't backed up with evidence defending those claims. If you claim that I have please point out where I have done so.
