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Old 01-11-2015, 10:27 PM
 
170 posts, read 133,176 times
Reputation: 357

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Quote:
So our jobs have either been outsourced or given away to illegal aliens on our soil. What a country! Obama is mostly responsible for the latter with his stay of deportation for millions of illegal aliens along with work permits.
(Bold words in the quote above). There seems to be a great deal of entitlement by certain Americans. Either misguided or just selfishness. What I have been reading throughout these posts is that employers must give jobs to Americans only. Isn't this the same shortsighted mentality of those who support individuals that claim a university gave their spot to a minority? Why is it your slot? Just like they ignore the holistic system of filling an incoming class, now they again ignore that the employer may have self interest reasons (i.e. larger company profits, higher shareholder return on investment) when hiring Indians or moving jobs overseas.
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:55 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,271,446 times
Reputation: 20827
arjay57
It's good old-fashioned competition. If Americans are willing to get out there and bust their humps like they used to nothing is stopping them. If an immigrant says he will do a job for X, Americans should say, "I'll do it fo X-1 and do it better!"

If they offer the corporations that kind of deal, I'd be very surprised if they get turned down."


bobTN

Amen. We need to welcome competition, and strengthen ourselves by challenging ourselves.

2nd Trick op

I sincerely wish I did not have to raise this point

I worked for many years in trucking and warehousing-- in a number of capacities where my geographic knowledge came in handy and commanded some respect. Unfortunately for me, the development of GPS devalued a lot of that knowledge.

So at age 62, I had to go back to "the line" -- working at a relatively simple manual job where cramming more physical output into the same amount of time, rather than any specific knowledge, was the principal measure of effort. Even had I still been young enough to be considered for a front-line supervisory role, that path involved a lot more stress, and didn't pay all that well.

And I know that's not the only such example. In 1945, roughly 80.000 employees, mostly male, and a substantial number with physical handicaps (the craft was a good place for a man who'd lost a limb -- more common in those times) controlled traffic on our nation's rail system. They usually worked alone, and manned 24-hour/7-day positions in dispersed locations throughout the system. It was a very good job if you liked to work without constant pressure to "schmooze" your way upward in the pecking order within a large, politicized office.

Today, the same functions are probably performed by about 3000 people, most of them in about a dozen locations, usually close to corporate headquarters. The autonomy that made it a good job is long gone.

I hate to sound like a modern day Luddite -- but the unpleasant fact appears to be that technological progress eliminates more "good" jobs than "bad".

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 01-12-2015 at 04:04 AM..
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:27 AM
 
62,644 posts, read 28,822,855 times
Reputation: 18441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondu54 View Post
(Bold words in the quote above). There seems to be a great deal of entitlement by certain Americans. Either misguided or just selfishness. What I have been reading throughout these posts is that employers must give jobs to Americans only. Isn't this the same shortsighted mentality of those who support individuals that claim a university gave their spot to a minority? Why is it your slot? Just like they ignore the holistic system of filling an incoming class, now they again ignore that the employer may have self interest reasons (i.e. larger company profits, higher shareholder return on investment) when hiring Indians or moving jobs overseas.
Why shouldn't a citizen have more rights in this country than a foreigner? Especially a foreigner here illegally? No, you are comparing apples to oranges here. If a minority is a citizen of this country vs a white they should both have the same rights. Your clue is "citizen". You'd rather have a citizen (doesn't matter whom they are either) sit on their duffs and denied jobs while foeigners can come here and work on the cheap? Outsourcing is the same thing. It diminishes job opportunities for Americans in this country. Like it or not holding citizenship in a country does allow you certain rights and priviledges and rightly so!

Last edited by Oldglory; 01-12-2015 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:31 AM
 
62,644 posts, read 28,822,855 times
Reputation: 18441
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I don't a disadvantage to speaking the language and had better education opportunities being native born; so it must be more like they say;Americans will not do some jobs.
Absolute nonsense that Americans won't do most any job for fair wage.

Last edited by Oldglory; 01-12-2015 at 10:44 AM..
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,744,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
"The influx of foreign workers includes many foreign graduates. Their arrival is forcing many debt-burdened Americans graduates to start their careers in lower-wage jobs...
I am assuming this comes from a certain wing of American society where college education is frowned upon, much less a system that would promote debt free education.

They can keep crying a river. They are the cause for an American debacle, that is debt laden students.
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Old 01-12-2015, 09:57 AM
 
46,842 posts, read 25,791,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The IT industry has also been flooded with cheap, foreign labor.
...
Why in the world should Americans have to live like that in order to get a job in their own damned country while the rich get richer? And by the way, I am a conservative.
The IT industry has made its bed and will now have to lie in it.

The entry-level jobs - the ones that should be available to new graduates ready to learn how things are done in the real world - were off-shored 10 years or so ago. The thing is, there's no replacement for actual experience, and for every 100 graduates there will be 30 hopeless cases, 30 decent workers, 30 good ones, 8 with real potential and 2 rock stars. It's just we can't identify who is what without letting them loose on real projects, and the bulk of the low-level work on projects isn't done in-country any more.

Now we're short 10 years' worth of experienced people. And there are experienced people overseas. The industry is of course exploiting this situation to the max, but the problem is real. (Eventually, the smart people overseas will decide to build their own companies and bring the US industry out of its misery, but that is a few decades off. I hope.)
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:40 AM
 
9,240 posts, read 9,705,426 times
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If an American studies computer science and can be an at least average student, it is extremely easy to find a job with 50k starting salary or more. Hiring an alien requires sponsoring a work visa, which most small companies don't even consider.

That being said, 95% American kids still don't choose to study computer science.

I'm not saying everyone should study computer science, of course. But when you whine about it is hard to find a job, did you really plan for your future?
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:52 AM
 
62,644 posts, read 28,822,855 times
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
If an American studies computer science and can be an at least average student, it is extremely easy to find a job with 50k starting salary or more. Hiring an alien requires sponsoring a work visa, which most small companies don't even consider.

That being said, 95% American kids still don't choose to study computer science.

I'm not saying everyone should study computer science, of course. But when you whine about it is hard to find a job, did you really plan for your future?
IT jobs aren't the only ones flooded with foreigners. Just about every industry is and many of those jobs have been taken by illegal aliens. So unless an American can afford to go to college and study to be a doctor, lawyer, etc. (and they may not want those types of jobs) it is hard to find a job even in the blue-collared industry because many employers don't give a damn about the American worker all they care about is their bottom line. I can't even find a doctor that isn't a foreigner come to think of it.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:08 AM
 
32,000 posts, read 36,614,978 times
Reputation: 13269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The IT industry has made its bed and will now have to lie in it.

The entry-level jobs - the ones that should be available to new graduates ready to learn how things are done in the real world - were off-shored 10 years or so ago. The thing is, there's no replacement for actual experience, and for every 100 graduates there will be 30 hopeless cases, 30 decent workers, 30 good ones, 8 with real potential and 2 rock stars. It's just we can't identify who is what without letting them loose on real projects, and the bulk of the low-level work on projects isn't done in-country any more.

Now we're short 10 years' worth of experienced people. And there are experienced people overseas. The industry is of course exploiting this situation to the max, but the problem is real. (Eventually, the smart people overseas will decide to build their own companies and bring the US industry out of its misery, but that is a few decades off. I hope.)
Very good points!

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Old 01-12-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,744,599 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
IT jobs aren't the only ones flooded with foreigners. Just about every industry is and many of those jobs have been taken by illegal aliens.
Let us work with specifics. Can you provide a concrete example/illustration to your argument above?

Quote:
So unless an American can afford to go to college and study to be a doctor, lawyer, etc. (and they may not want those types of jobs) it is hard to find a job even in the blue-collared industry because many employers don't give a damn about the American worker all they care about is their bottom line. I can't even find a doctor that isn't a foreigner come to think of it.
And here is your clue: Higher education is valued in those countries, and mostly affordable to everybody based on their qualifications/talent, rather than bank balance or making up for lack of bank balance via lending. Prohibitive cost of education in the USA is its biggest issue. Don't blame "foreigners" for it.

Also, you might find a good number of foreign born doctors (or who you might perceive to be foreign born based on the color of their skin). There is a reason for that too. USA didn't have qualified professionals to meet the demands of medical doctors, especially those willing to work outside of highly profitable urban areas. These demands were met by professionals from overseas over several decades.

And, it just so happens that these professionals grew up in cultures that valued high education and similar qualifications, and typically passed down the baton to their children. This is why you will find a high number of people who you personally may not identify as "Americans" (but chances are, they are Americans), or filling the roles that "Americans" don't want to... often to pay back their massive loans.

Here is a clue: I'm one of those "foreigners" for you. Guess how much it cost me to secure my professional degrees that will run into several tens of thousands to the typical American? It was about $15/year, plus merit scholarships covered all of food/living expenses. I actually had a positive bank balance coming out of my last university degree.
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