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well on day when you die you will have your proof
but it will be too late to do anything about it~~
Aaah yes; the fear thingy again. Is that the best (or only) weapon in your arsenal?
You've experienced this proof first hand have you? Those who have, came back and told you personally about this I suppose? This proof you speak of has been verified and documented for study in va recognized form?
Please don't give me any more of the oxygen deprivation "white light" nonsense.
Perhaps so, but the church provides an organizational structure that brings people who possess unique gifts together and provides the impetus and support for them to accomplish great things. I've seen the results, and it is truly incredible when it works. I would put forth that the city of Baltimore (as I understand it), which arguably had many more resources at its disposal, chose to pull out of the shelter project, but the congregation stepped forward and committed to continuing the program. I think that speaks volumes. And, please remember that I identify as one of the unwashed. The church served the community in a time of tremendous need in a way that the city could not, or rather would not.
You are talking about the works of like minded good people acting in concert. Kiwanis, Odd Fellows, IOOF, the Masonic orders, the Boy Scouts even the Hell's Angles with their annual Toy Runs can all claim to have such events performed in their past. Now please tell us what the heck that has to do with religion as it pertains to God's existence.
Great, so there are religious people who do good things. That is goid to hear! But I'd wager these people (and those that run these particular churches) would be doing wonderful things even if religion never even existed.
Bingo!
Ooops..... perhaps that was a faux pas or.....maybe a Freudian slip?
[quote=BruSan;37790524]You are talking about the works of like minded good people acting in concert. Kiwanis, Odd Fellows, IOOF, the Masonic orders, the Boy Scouts even the Hell's Angles with their annual Toy Runs can all claim to have such events performed in their past. Now please tell us what the heck that has to do with religion as it pertains to God's existence.[/QUOTE
It has nothing to do with religion as it pertains to God's existance or non-existance, but it does speak to the ridiculousness of projecting negative traits on people of faith or no faith simply on the basis of where they stand on a higher power.
Yes, atheists have faith. But that faith is not in an unknown entity. Their faith is believing in themselves. They don't look or pray to a higher power to help them because they know they are the ones in control of their destiny.
By your definition it seems rather odd to me that so many atheists are Liberal Democrats.
You are talking about the works of like minded good people acting in concert. Kiwanis, Odd Fellows, IOOF, the Masonic orders, the Boy Scouts even the Hell's Angles with their annual Toy Runs can all claim to have such events performed in their past. Now please tell us what the heck that has to do with religion as it pertains to God's existence.[/QUOTE
It has nothing to do with religion as it pertains to God's existance or non-existance, but it does speak to the ridiculousness of projecting negative traits on people of faith or no faith simply on the basis of where they stand on a higher power.
Apparently I know more than some. I know that there is zero empirical evidence of a god, miracles, and an afterlife. I know that there are significant benefits for the church to create such constructs in the interest of control. I know that the bible is filled with bad morals, inaccurate history and a profound lack of knowledge about science.
As for strength, why not believe in themselves? Why not believe in humanity? We are capable of remarkable things if we can put aside our petty differences.
Again, I'm not insulting you but the institution of religion. This isn't personal as I know none of you. I'm sure many of you are great people.
No argument from me with your first paragraph. There is no empirical evidence. What some people call "miracles" are what I call "fantastic coincidences", or just "plain sheer luck". I've never attended a single church that tried to control anyone. All they taught was how to be a better person, in every way, ways that most people don't take the time to think about. That's how they gain their strength. Like I said earlier, it's almost like being in a therapist's office. You know, the best one I can think to explain what I mean is Joyce Meyers. I don't know what religion she is, I mean she's Christian, but I don't know which one. Anyway, she's on t.v. all the time, (possibly YouTube as well), and while she does read passages from the Bible, she goes on to explain things that people go through in every day life, and how to use those passages to strengthen themselves to be better people. Even if you don't believe in God or any gods, she actually has some pretty good points. But no, we have no evidence....which is why Christians, and other religions, rely on faith.
And this is why I question Christianity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Which Christ?
John Christ of Gishala, John Christ Bar Giora, Simon Christ the Idumean or Cyrus the Mede who ruled from Persia, or one of the thousands of others?
Isaiah 45:1 This is what Yahweh says to his anointed one, to Cyrus, whose right hand I hold in order to subdue nations before him, and the belts of kings I will loosen, to open doors before him, so gates remain unclosed…
....a messiah.....a mashiach.....a christ......an anointed of Yahweh ...
That is not the first time I've heard of more than one god or more than one Christ. And it wasn't from an atheist. It was from all of the Christians, over the years, who answered my questions. After awhile, you compile a lot of information, and dang it, there appeared to be more than one. So what the heck here?
In some translations of the Bible, (I don't remember which ones...there was a reaaaaaaaalllllly old Bible that my parental units got after the grandparents died...I looked through it simply because the thing was huge, it was really, really, really, really old, and I like old things like that), they talk about all of these different people, depending on the translation. Between whatever time that Bible came out to the time we all got our little King James versions, quite a bit had changed. You've got Jehovas Witnesses who say one person, you've got Episcopalians who say another person, you've got Catholics who say a little bit different, (not much), than Episcopalians, you've got Lutherans who say something different, you've got Baptists who say so much different...they all claim to be believers in Jesus and God....but then you read their versions, and you start seeing all this talk about other Christs or Gods...as if there was a different God in every village. I started to wonder if the term "God" actually meant like a leader in that particular area, that's how many different names and versions I've read, and talked about, or heard from those who are quite religious.
So...if there's only one Christ and only one God...then who the heck are all of these other Christs and Gods? Seriously. THIS right here, is my biggest problem with believing Christianity.
I don't care if someone does...but not yet have I received a good explanation for all of those different Christs and Gods. Not a single one.
Having said all of that, there's still a part of me that thinks it is completely illogical that it's all made up just to control people. Maybe the church was created for that purpose, but the belief in some higher power, I just can't get myself to believe it's all completely made up....most of the time. I go back and forth, but mostly it's that there has to be something...I just don't know what it is.
If someone believes their own feces is responsible for all that exists, is that worthy of belittlement? Some beliefs truly are worthy of being belittled. Literal belief in a being that has no evidence physical manifestation, yet is responsible for everything physical that exists is one such belief.
I don't give a damn what people believe. That's their business, not mine. And who are we to belittle someone because we don't agree with their beliefs. That's just being a bully because you think you are superior.
well on day when you die you will have your proof
but it will be too late to do anything about it~~
Exhibit #243,902 in favor of Thomas Paine's statement, "Belief [in] a cruel God makes a cruel man."
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