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I will state flat out that no idiot would ever be a conservative. It requires intellectual muscle and serious and critical thought to be one. It requires nothing to be a liberal, other than mouthing platitudes. All you have to do is say you "care" and vote for anyone who says the same.
Having said that, we both are aware that there are people who identify with either (or no) side of political issues despite having no idea why, and cannot explain the validity of what they believe. People who usually bark the loudest have less critical thinking skills. And, look at you, still relying on stereotypes and assumptions about me and liberals
On the other hand, liberals have never been able to explain what they think, other than to say they "care".
Luckily, I know of a few conservatives on here that I know don't have the maturity of a teenager. You are a very belligerent person, it makes me question how steadfast you are in your beliefs. Looking at your previous few posts, still relying on caricatures, stereotypes, and assumptions about people you don't know. You definitely listen to way too much talk radio. Listening to talk radio does not make one smart. Questioning your own belief system does, what are you scared of?
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Originally Posted by steven_h
And that is the crux of the problem. Both parties seem to target the fringe, when they should be moderates who serve the majority interests. We can point out how the "other party" is wrong, but seem blind to how our own parties are just as bad... or worse. It's politcal deafness.
My question to everyone is, where have all the moderates gone? There are hardly any sane voices left in DC, and if there are, they are being drowned out by the less moderate among them. but, that's what happens during times of economic uncertainty, that kind of climate is healthy for the political fringe to come out of the woodwork. Changes, good or bad, happen during uncertain times like these.
And that is the crux of the problem. Both parties seem to target the fringe, when they should be moderates who serve the majority interests. We can point out how the "other party" is wrong, but seem blind to how our own parties are just as bad... or worse. It's politcal deafness.
I have come to believe that the "fringe" is the largest number of people; and, thus, both parties are just cultivating their share of it. Are there even a significant number of moderates left in the U.S., I wonder.
Luckily, I know of a few conservatives on here that I know don't have the maturity of a teenager. You are a very belligerent person, it makes me question how steadfast you are in your beliefs. Looking at your previous few posts, still relying on caricatures, stereotypes, and assumptions about people you don't know. You definitely listen to way too much talk radio. Listening to talk radio does not make one smart. Questioning your own belief system does, what are you scared of?
Relying on caricatures, you said? You mean, like arguing that I "listen to way too much talk radio." You mean, like that caricature? Or were you trying to use it as a stereotype? Either way, you made "assumptions about people you don't know".
You make this all too easy. It was YOU, after all, who claimed to be a libertarian, but then decided to be a liberal because the people in the party were, you know, like people in a political party. As if liberals, who actually believe in elitism and centralized power, would not? Are you making the implication that liberals have no cronyism, nepotism, political infighting? By contrasting them to the political insiders in the LP? Or even the GOP? What kind of starry-eyed gullibility would that require, to believe it?
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My question to everyone is, where have all the moderates gone?
What's a "moderate"? Define for us what a "moderate" is. Not in policy wonk terms, but in terms of principled beliefs.
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There are hardly any sane voices left in DC, and if there are, they are being drowned out by the less moderate among them.
You do realize that power drowns out sanity, right? There is simply too much power - too much control - too much money - too much ability to take, give, control, regulate, destroy for there to be any sanity.
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but, that's what happens during times of economic uncertainty, that kind of climate is healthy for the political fringe to come out of the woodwork. Changes, good or bad, happen during uncertain times like these.
Politics never has the answers for times like this. It is the cause, not the solution.
I have come to believe that the "fringe" is the largest number of people; and, thus, both parties are just cultivating their share of it. Are there even a significant number of moderates left in the U.S., I wonder.
I certainly hope you are wrong about this. If the majority are extreme, on either side, then they have abandoned sanity. Between the right and their authoritarian big government (under the guise (lie) of being pro smaller government) and the left with their progressive totalitarian big government (nanny state) the country is being hijacked into some alternate reality of ignorance.
If the moderates become the minority, we are doomed. The country will be extreme, and the people always suffer under extremists rule.
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Originally Posted by pnwmdk
What's a "moderate"? Define for us what a "moderate" is. Not in policy wonk terms, but in terms of principled beliefs.
Speaking for myself, I truly believe that Libertarians are the true moderates. Socially liberal fiscal conservatives who believe that we:
- should protect and restore states rights
- should not be the police of the world, while still protecting our interests.
- should be securing our borders and enforcing the federal immigration laws
- should not allow corporations and their lobbyists to dictate law based on greasing the aspirations of political cronies
- should have a logical welfare system based on need and ability, not how many babies an unwed mother can bare
- should end this ridiculous drug war; making all vices legal, and taxable, just like alcohol and tobacco
- should abolish the 17th amendment which would bring back appointed state senators rather than elected cronies
- should bring the presidential powers back in line with the Constitution - Presidential Powers Act - A Proposed Amendment to the U.S. Constitution | Petition2Congress
- should not use the color of skin, religious beliefs, gender, sexual beliefs, or ethnicity as a tool for ideological advancement.
- must get spending under control
- must make politicians legally accountable
- must maintain free markets
- should require all future SCOTUS judges MUST be apolitical. The only way to have a pure justice system is for that system to be free from politics.
- (and finally) MUST have term limits for Senators and Representatives! Politics are supposed to be job of service, not a career!
I certainly hope you are wrong about this. If the majority are extreme, on either side, then they have abandoned sanity. Between the right and their authoritarian big government (under the guise (lie) of being pro smaller government) and the left with their progressive totalitarian big government (nanny state) the country is being hijacked into some alternate reality of ignorance.
If the moderates become the minority, we are doomed. The country will be extreme, and the people always suffer under extremists rule.
Since I am "the right", please tell me what "authoritarian" big government I want. And be prepared to back it up with my words.
You actually think Cliven Bundy (who exhibits more critical thinking than you do) is a moron?
I've noticed you think anyone who disagrees with you does so (by your account) because of a lack of intellgence.
I've noticed that I disagree with you BECAUSE I don't lack intelligence.
You sure you don't lack intelligence? It seems you immediately disregard is main point simply based on your previous bias and opinion toward him; something you chastise him for. Rather or not you accusation is valid (I don't know if it is, nor do I really care), the same can be said of you here as you completely disregarded the focus of his comment and instead chose to question his example, Cliven Bundy.
Politically extreme people are the dangerous ones. I don't agree with his 'lower IQ' assessment; that's not always the case. At least not with the prominent ones. Certainly the followers are incredibly unintelligent (that's why they're followers). But people like Hitler were both extreme and incredibly intelligent. It's not even required for this to be an issue of left/right. The most extreme people don't always have a bad idea, when you strip their desires to the bare bones. Hitler, for example, wanted the human races to be stronger. This is not a bad thing at all; who doesn't want this? It was his methods. Eliminating anyone he decided was a weak link (which is of course subjective) by rounding them up and killing them is why we dislike Hitler. Same with most people with extreme ideologies.
So in fact, extreme ideologies are always the problem. And while those who hold the ideologies are not necessarily unintelligent, those who follow them most likely are. They refuse to question the motives and rational behind the actions being taken. This can be said about large scale movements, like fascism, as well as smaller ones like the Westboro Baptist Church (and Christian fundamentalism as a whole).
Since I am "the right", please tell me what "authoritarian" big government I want. And be prepared to back it up with my words.
This is the problem we seem to have in here. I wasn't directing that AT YOU, but to the actual politicians of said party. If you believe the RNC has been for smaller government and protecting the Constitution... I'm glad you re enjoying a moment of alternate reality bliss.
Speaking for myself, I truly believe that Libertarians are the true moderates. Socially liberal fiscal conservatives who believe that we:
- should protect and restore states rights
- should not be the police of the world, while still protecting our interests.
- should be securing our borders and enforcing the federal immigration laws
- should not allow corporations and their lobbyists to dictate law based on greasing the aspirations of political cronies
- should have a logical welfare system based on need and ability, not how many babies an unwed mother can bare
- should end this ridiculous drug war; making all vices legal, and taxable, just like alcohol and tobacco
- should abolish the 17th amendment which would bring back appointed state senators rather than elected cronies
- should bring the presidential powers back in line with the Constitution - Presidential Powers Act - A Proposed Amendment to the U.S. Constitution | Petition2Congress
- should not use the color of skin, religious beliefs, gender, sexual beliefs, or ethnicity as a tool for ideological advancement.
- must get spending under control
- must make politicians legally accountable
- must maintain free markets
(and finally) that all future SCOTUS judges MUST be apolitical. The only way to have a pure justice system is for that system to be free from politics.
so, you did exactly the opposite of what I asked for.
I asked for principle, you gave me policy statements.
This is the problem we seem to have in here. I wasn't directing that AT YOU, but to the actual politicians of said party. If you believe the RNC has been for smaller government and protecting the Constitution... I'm glad you re enjoying a moment of alternate reality bliss.
I didn't say anything about the RNC. I'm talking about me. And, by your own words, so were you.
I am responding to your words. I am "the right", so, again, tell ME how, because I am "the right" (far right, fringe right, radical right, extreme right, etc, etc, etc) an authoritarian.
I didn't say anything about the RNC. I'm talking about me. And, by your own words, so were you.
I am responding to your words. I am "the right", so, again, tell ME how, because I am "the right" (far right, fringe right, radical right, extreme right, etc, etc, etc) an authoritarian.
It's not that difficult of a request, is it?
You take issue with any answer. You are now irrelevant to me, and probably many others in here.
This thread should just die and get it over with since it's seems to have been created by a troll.
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