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Old 01-12-2015, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,894,142 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that only some but not all of those with an income are forced by threat of violence (imprisonment) to work a percentage of every work day for no compensation (slave labor), while others are given the fruits of the slaves' labor.

I'd still like to know which act of Congress authorizes the government to force some but not all to labor as slaves, which unconstitutionally violates the equal protections clause.
I've read several articles and blogs on the topic and most people cite the period after the French and Indian War in which the English taxed the colonialists to make up for budget shortfalls for the war. These taxes included the Stamp Act, Townsend Act, Tea Act and ultimately the Intolerable Acts which were unavoidable. The income tax is avoidable, as you can decide not to work. No one is forcing you to work though. You can choose to NOT work and therefore NOT pay taxes. That is why I don't buy taxation as a form of slavery argument when used to income taxes. If we don't have taxes, there goes public programs you use. If roads aren't kept up because of no tax income, how would you get to work?
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:10 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I've read several articles and blogs on the topic and most people cite the period after the French and Indian War in which the English taxed the colonialists to make up for budget shortfalls for the war. These taxes included the Stamp Act, Townsend Act, Tea Act and ultimately the Intolerable Acts which were unavoidable. The income tax is avoidable, as you can decide not to work. No one is forcing you to work though. You can choose to NOT work and therefore NOT pay taxes. That is why I don't buy taxation as a form of slavery argument when used to income taxes. If we don't have taxes, there goes public programs you use. If roads aren't kept up because of no tax income, how would you get to work?
Income tax doesn't pay for roads. Fuel tax, property tax (depending on which entity owns the roads), and tolls pay for those. IOW, public service users pay for public services. Everyone in the same location pays the same fuel tax, tolls, property tax rates (renters pay, as property tax is incorporated into the rent that's paid) which funds public schools, police and fire departments, park districts, public libraries, local governments, etc.

The point being that such taxes, in which everyone pays the same tax rates, do not violate the equal protections clause while the federal income tax does violate it because not all pay the same federal income tax rate. The federal income tax forces some into slave labor solely to benefit others.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,535,277 times
Reputation: 24780
Lightbulb Raising taxes to pay for...

...more bomb craters in middle eastern sand is particularly symptomatic of the psychosis inflicted on our system by the military-industrial complex. And it's always so revealing to see which party fully and unquestioningly embraces it as a major tenet.

Trillions of taxpayer dollars spent to lose two stupidly conceived and moronically mismanaged wars is never pointed out as any kind of economic drain on America.

US Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq to Cost $6 trillion | Global Research

But mention funding to repair our infrastructure, and the right wing echo chamber goes ballistic with bellowing over how "we can't afford it!"

Pathetically amusing.

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Old 01-12-2015, 06:38 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
...more bomb craters in middle eastern sand is particularly symptomatic of the psychosis inflicted on our system by the military-industrial complex. And it's always so revealing to see which party fully and unquestioningly embraces it as a major tenet.
Good point...

Watch the 90-second video, here:

American Leadership and War

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Old 01-12-2015, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,894,142 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Income tax doesn't pay for roads. Fuel tax, property tax (depending on which entity owns the roads), and tolls pay for those. IOW, public service users pay for public services. Everyone in the same location pays the same fuel tax, tolls, property tax rates (renters pay, as property tax is incorporated into the rent that's paid) which funds public schools, police and fire departments, park districts, public libraries, local governments, etc.

The point being that such taxes, in which everyone pays the same tax rates, do not violate the equal protections clause while the federal income tax does violate it because not all pay the same federal income tax rate. The federal income tax forces some into slave labor solely to benefit others.
Then get off your duff and sue the government over it already and it could get heard in the Supreme Court in 5-10 years if it is THAT unconstitutional through two amendments that you must complain about it. You have some reasonable responses but you're thinking too small if you are going to say it is against one, two amendments even. The equal protection, I'll give more weight than slavery but who knows what the courts will think until they are pressed on the issue. Posting on a forum wont do that.

As for the roads, the point I was making was an example of no income taxes (because if you go by the slavery option ANY form of income based taxation would be unconstitutional by your's (and others) explanations) means public programs we all use would be on the table. Military protection as all countries aren't libertarian utopias that wont attack us will not happen. The FBI and CIA wont be able to punish master minds of terrorist attacks because they wont exist to build a case. The problem with claiming taxation is slavery is the slippery slope besides retail taxes.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:52 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
As for the roads, the point I was making was an example of no income taxes (because if you go by the slavery option ANY form of income based taxation would be unconstitutional by your's (and others) explanations) means public programs we all use would be on the table.
What utter BS. I've already explained how everyone is charged the SAME tax rate for fuel, property taxes, etc., which fund public services like roads, public schools, police and fire departments, park districts, public libraries, local governments, etc. Charging everyone the SAME tax rate at least complies with the Constitution's equal protections clause. The federal income tax does not, as not everyone pays the same federal income tax rate.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,894,142 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
...more bomb craters in middle eastern sand is particularly symptomatic of the psychosis inflicted on our system by the military-industrial complex. And it's always so revealing to see which party fully and unquestioningly embraces it as a major tenet.

Trillions of taxpayer dollars spent to lose two stupidly conceived and moronically mismanaged wars is never pointed out as any kind of economic drain on America.

US Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq to Cost $6 trillion | Global Research

But mention funding to repair our infrastructure, and the right wing echo chamber goes ballistic with bellowing over how "we can't afford it!"

Pathetically amusing.

Conservatives, libertarians, etc. will blame liberals and neo-conservatives for the two wars while saying infrastructure is waste. Remember during the Great Depression, there was push back to the FDR proposed New Deal by conservative Republicans as was the LBJ Great Society (whether it was JFK ideas or not) by Barry Goldwater. The fact is, infrastructure improvements do work and at worst, we improve things for everyone.
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Old 01-12-2015, 07:16 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Conservatives, libertarians, etc. will blame liberals and neo-conservatives for the two wars while saying infrastructure is waste.
2 wars? What? Are you 15 years old?

Here's what the U.S. history of war actually reveals about political parties and military action...

Watch the 90-second video, here:

American Leadership and War
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Old 01-12-2015, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,535,277 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Good point...

Watch the 90-second video, here:

American Leadership and War

Can you give me the Cliffs Notes version?

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Old 01-12-2015, 08:29 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,000 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Can you give me the Cliffs Notes version?

It's 90 seconds and rather important to watch. Cheat sheet: many more war deaths racked up by Dems then the GOP.

American Leadership and War
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