Our so called "allies" will step up to defend themselves if we don't. (middle east, Afghanistan)
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Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMORE
What? I want more troops in Japan, what is the point of a mutual defense treaty if we're going to abandon our obligations as soon as things become fiery. Imagine the economy plummeting and the FDIC saying to you: "Yeah, we didn't anticipate the economy becoming bad therefore that $250,000 insured cash won't be payed out." Japan and China won't fight in a major theater, but minor skimmers can be expected and that DOESN'T need to jnvovle us, but in the hypothetical event of a China aggressive enough to invade Japan then we MUST stand by to help them; its not like we are Japan's military, we are more so their deterrent and we also stay they for forwarding against North Korea.
Plus Japan owns the second, soon to be first amount of U.S.-debt, the least we could do is stay there as a continued deterrent.
IF it's truly a mutual defense treaty, how many Japanese troops are stationed in the US defending our soil and how many yen is Japan spending to do so?
Global stability is a very good thing, very much worth the USA pitching in.
But I do agree with the OP somewhat.....many of our allies need to start shelling-out more $$$$$ to build up their defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth
Well when you say, "hardly my problem" what am I supposed to think, but that you are posting out of emotion. "Hardly my problem" is not exactly a serious stance.
American-Japanese defense policies are done by concensus in both countries. It may not be "your problem" but the majority see it as their problem and has acted accordingly for more than half a century.
Consensus? Really?
These are agreements signed by politicians and diplomats. And whatever benefits there are to this "consensus" ...well, they're lost on me (and many if not most other common people).
I would bet that the overwhelming majority of Okinawans do not want us there. I'd also bet that most Americans don't believe that their taxes should be used to defend wealthy nations that are not only our economic competitors, but are easily capable of defending themselves.
People on this thread have already posted links showing that the Japanese themselves believe that they can and should be doing all of their own heavy lifting.
Again, the bottom line is that in 2015, there can be no reasonable justification for a broke United States to defend a wealthy e economic competitor nation such as Japan.
And I'm pretty sure that's the "consensus" of most people with common sense.
IF it's truly a mutual defense treaty, how many Japanese troops are stationed in the US defending our soil and how many yen is Japan spending to do so?
Mutual defense is a canard. It means "you defend me, and I'll do whatever I can to help you."
IF it's truly a mutual defense treaty, how many Japanese troops are stationed in the US defending our soil and how many yen is Japan spending to do so?
I don't want to see any Japanese troops stationed in the US.
The Japanese government paid Â¥217 billion (US$ 2.0 billion) in 2007[4] as annual host-nation support called Omoiyari Yosan (思いやり予算?, sympathy budget or compassion budget).
These are agreements signed by politicians and diplomats. And whatever benefits there are to this "consensus" ...well, they're lost on me (and many if not most other common people).
I would bet that the overwhelming majority of Okinawans do not want us there. I'd also bet that most Americans don't believe that their taxes should be used to defend wealthy nations that are not only our economic competitors, but are easily capable of defending themselves.
People on this thread have already posted links showing that the Japanese themselves believe that they can and should be doing all of their own heavy lifting.
Again, the bottom line is that in 2015, there can be no reasonable justification for a broke United States to defend a wealthy e economic competitor nation such as Japan.
And I'm pretty sure that's the "consensus" of most people with common sense.
Yes, Consensus.
We are talking about agreements between democratic nations. If they did not want us there, we would leave (there is precedent for that). Likewise, if what you (and I) desire were favored by the majority, it would happen. It does not because the majority does not wish it.
This has been the consensus since 1945. Your complaints are nothing new. I would love it if America transformed into a larger version of Switzerland. But I am in the minority. So are you.
And dude, Okinawa is but one small part of Japan. The rest of Japan does not care what they think. There's that tricky notion of majority again.
Firstly, it is true. Japan kicks in a lot of money for our presence there. Not all, but a lot.
Secondly, allowing Japan to "do it alone" as you say is a rather frightening notion to most of Asia and to the Japanese themselves. Something to do with....World War II.
Thirdly, Japan cannot do it alone because of Article 5 in their Constitution that we wrote for them during the Occupation.
Don't get me wrong- I sympathize with your premise to some extent. Just better to have some facts rather than raw passion.
Well I do not work at the DOD. However, I would guess it is because US forces in Japan are no longer Occupation forces. And the defense of Japan is not the only reason. Japan is a good base for our forces over there. China, Russia, North Korea are all nearby.
In short, Logistics.
Think of our forces in Germany and Italy. We are not occupying them. And we are no longer defending them from the USSR. However, the bases there were very useful for operations in Bosnia, Iraq, Libya, etc.
Well I do not work at the DOD. However, I would guess it is because US forces in Japan are no longer Occupation forces. And the defense of Japan is not the only reason. Japan is a good base for our forces over there. China, Russia, North Korea are all nearby.
In short, Logistics.
Think of our forces in Germany and Italy. We are not occupying them. And we are no longer defending them from the USSR. However, the bases there were very useful for operations in Bosnia, Iraq, Libya, etc.
Logistics.
I read it somewhere on the internet that the USA ARE closing a lot of bases in Germany - and Germans (especially in the communities around the bases) are rather unhappy about this. The US bases have been a steady source of income for decades, in what normally wasn't a well-off area of Germany.
I don't know if this is true or not, but this makes me pretty mad. If they want military (American military) base there, then they should not be bi*ching and moaning about American foreign policy. It is about time for these European countries to defend themselves.
Because our allies know that we are omnipresent with a "big stick" it puts us at a disadvantage and gives them an advantage.
-It encourages us to spend more on military, which means we have less on improving our own people's lives
-It adds more debt that will hurt all Americans
-It allows our allies to spend less on military and more on improving their people's lives
-We often don't get a lot of credit for providing defense for allies, spending a lot of money (including service family $) boosting foreign economies, and in fact our bases are sometimes resented by local populace in some locations
Certainly there are benefits to being a world super power, but there are also drawbacks to having so many military bases all over - and (non-combat zone) military bases that are still growing in number.
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