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Old 01-17-2015, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,429 posts, read 2,733,461 times
Reputation: 1667

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
I disagree with the point that people have to learn bad habits. As bad as it may sound, it is something that creatures are born with, the need to survive and compete, the necessity of protecting yourself and those in your group, you name it.
We are, as you say, genetically inclined to be self-protective, clannish, and somewhat xenophobic. And the nature of intelligence is such that we naturally think in terms of categories, so some logical fallacies like hasty generalization are going to be fairly common, even under the best of circumstances. Biologically, we are animals, so yes, we do need to learn to live in civilization, which means giving up (or trying to at least minimize) certain selfish tendencies. I shouldn't have used a simplistic term like "bad habits" to describe bigotry. But, though I agree with you about all of this, I still want to claim that diversity, as such, is not a cause of aggression, prejudice, etc.

Our brains, at birth, are too underdeveloped to deal with the types of abstract categories that later lead to the kinds of aggression we see arising between people of different cultures, races, religions, etc. We are genetically inclined to protect our family over our clan, and favor our clan over other clans, but this natural distrust of strangers does not account for the types of hatred and violence we see arising in the context of human multicultural encounters. We are born to be cautious of strangers; we are not born to hate them or oppress them. We are born to be self-protective; we are not born to disregard the welfare of other people. We are born ignorant of the benefits of diversity, just as we are born ignorant of the benefits of learning math or planning for the future, but we are also born with a natural inclination to learn new things and absorb the worldviews of our clan. This is where we need to think deeply about our attitudes toward the reality of our multicultural world.

Whatever attitude we have toward diverse cultures is not an attitude that we were born with, and it is not necessarily set in stone. We can learn new ways of thinking, and adopt new attitudes along the way. The buzz words "diversity" and "multiculturalism" are used by lots of people in lots of different ways, but, ultimately, the common underlying thread is this: We need to learn that multicultural reality is not a frightful burden that we must begrudgingly tolerate wearing grumpy-cat frowns on our faces. Diversity truly is a source of strength, both for individuals and for societies, and it is a good thing that this happens to be true because, like it or not, diversity is just plain flat-out reality.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:15 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,924,139 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
We are, as you say, genetically inclined to be self-protective, clannish, and somewhat xenophobic. And the nature of intelligence is such that we naturally think in terms of categories, so some logical fallacies like hasty generalization are going to be fairly common, even under the best of circumstances. Biologically, we are animals, so yes, we do need to learn to live in civilization, which means giving up (or trying to at least minimize) certain selfish tendencies. I shouldn't have used a simplistic term like "bad habits" to describe bigotry. But, though I agree with you about all of this, I still want to claim that diversity, as such, is not a cause of aggression, prejudice, etc.

Our brains, at birth, are too underdeveloped to deal with the types of abstract categories that later lead to the kinds of aggression we see arising between people of different cultures, races, religions, etc. We are genetically inclined to protect our family over our clan, and favor our clan over other clans, but this natural distrust of strangers does not account for the types of hatred and violence we see arising in the context of human multicultural encounters. We are born to be cautious of strangers; we are not born to hate them or oppress them. We are born to be self-protective; we are not born to disregard the welfare of other people. We are born ignorant of the benefits of diversity, just as we are born ignorant of the benefits of learning math or planning for the future, but we are also born with a natural inclination to learn new things and absorb the worldviews of our clan. This is where we need to think deeply about our attitudes toward the reality of our multicultural world.

Whatever attitude we have toward diverse cultures is not an attitude that we were born with, and it is not necessarily set in stone. We can learn new ways of thinking, and adopt new attitudes along the way. The buzz words "diversity" and "multiculturalism" are used by lots of people in lots of different ways, but, ultimately, the common underlying thread is this: We need to learn that multicultural reality is not a frightful burden that we must begrudgingly tolerate wearing grumpy-cat frowns on our faces. Diversity truly is a source of strength, both for individuals and for societies, and it is a good thing that this happens to be true because, like it or not, diversity is just plain flat-out reality.
Again I agree with much of what you've said here. Apparently, some of the replies in this thread seem to focus on labeling. I'm not sure how that is helpful? If labeling clarifies, I would say you're a realist. This article defines the term within a foreign policy framework:

Quote:
... AS THE LABEL implies, realists believe foreign policy must deal with the world as it really is, instead of relying on wishful thinking or ideological dogmas. Realism sees the international system as a competitive arena where states have to provide security for themselves. Realists know that states get into trouble if they are too trusting, but that problems also arise when states exaggerate external dangers, misjudge priorities or engage in foolish foreign adventures.

Thus, realists keep a keen eye on the balance of power and oppose squandering blood or treasure on needless military buildups or ideological crusades. They know military force is the ultimate guarantor of security, but they recognize that it is also a blunt instrument whose effects are unpredictable. Realists are therefore skeptical of grandiose plans for global social engineering and believe that force should be used only when vital interests are at stake. ...

The Great Debate: [bookpath-raw] - [page-title] | [site-name]
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
It is often said that there is strength in diversity. This is a very general statement that can be applied in a great many realms of life. What, generally speaking, are your feelings about it?
There is no strength in diversity. And today, "diversity" is always limited to racial diversity. So that's not diversity at all.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
Diversity truly is a source of strength, both for individuals and for societies,
Why? Because you say so?

Quote:
and it is a good thing that this happens to be true because, like it or not, diversity is just plain flat-out reality.[/b]

Reality does not in any way mean it is a source of strength.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,662,744 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
There is no strength in diversity. And today, "diversity" is always limited to racial diversity. So that's not diversity at all.
Not so.
Many Hispanics are white and counted as such but there is a large contingent of lighter skinned people who continuously lobby for no acceptance of the Hispanics.
Islamic people in America can not be differentiated from an Italian but there's a whole faction who want to kill them all.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
Not so.
Many Hispanics are white and counted as such but there is a large contingent of lighter skinned people who continuously lobby for no acceptance of the Hispanics.
Islamic people in America can not be differentiated from an Italian but there's a whole faction who want to kill them all.
Still, that's a very limited definition of diversity. True diversity would consider all human conditions such as poor, rich, fat, ugly, skinny, deformed, beautiful, college frat kids, nerds, athletic, raised by single parent, abused as a child, etc. None of these are ever considered by the idiots who espouse diversity. They are only focused on race and ethnicity.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:46 PM
 
62,945 posts, read 29,141,740 times
Reputation: 18578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Still, that's a very limited definition of diversity. True diversity would consider all human conditions such as poor, rich, fat, ugly, skinny, deformed, beautiful, college frat kids, nerds, athletic, raised by single parent, abused as a child, etc. None of these are ever considered by the idiots who espouse diversity. They are only focused on race and ethnicity.
As for me I don't care what race or skin color someone is. This is about culture clash and feeling at home in one's own country. Living among millions of foreigners who don't share your language or the nation's identifying culture does not make for a cohesive society.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:53 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,527,281 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Still, that's a very limited definition of diversity. True diversity would consider all human conditions such as poor, rich, fat, ugly, skinny, deformed, beautiful, college frat kids, nerds, athletic, raised by single parent, abused as a child, etc. None of these are ever considered by the idiots who espouse diversity. They are only focused on race and ethnicity.
I agree that focus has been on race. I'd include handicapped people, as well. I disagree that no consideration is given to the other attributes. Maybe not college frat kids and nerds, but the others are often discussed.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:55 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,527,281 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
As for me I don't care what race or skin color someone is. This is about culture clash and feeling at home in one's own country. Living among millions of foreigners who don't share your language or the nation's identifying culture does not make for a cohesive society.
This country has always had millions of foreigners. We seem to have done just fine. If this is about your neighbors, then you should move.
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Old 01-17-2015, 07:57 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,527,281 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Why? Because you say so?




Reality does not in any way mean it is a source of strength.
Reality does not mean it's not a source of strength, either.
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