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Old 01-18-2015, 02:13 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,298 posts, read 14,118,692 times
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The message here is not that human-influenced climate change is a dangerous fact (that's well-established at this time among the scientists who study climate), but that even oil companies, Republicans and conservatives in general (with the exception of Tea Party members) are mostly recognizing that fact now, after many years of skepticism. Since American political conservatives have been the main roadblock in official recognition of the problem, this is a giant step forward. "The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist" - Zig Ziglar. The End of the Partisan Divide Over Climate Change - Forbes
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,910,848 times
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The problem has been well known and well defined for years, yet NOTHING has been done to alleviate the predicted problems that were pronounced "inevitable".
WHY NOT?
They say the sea level is going to rise. WHY have no sea walls been started? Perhaps because nobody has figured out how to build a sea wall if they don't know whether the sea level will rise 2 inches or twenty feet?
They say agricultural land will become arid, unsuitable for agricultural purposes. WHY has there been no effort to improve irrigation?
They say that we are going to run out of potable water. WHY has there been no desalinization plants built on the ocean shores to make potable water from seawater?
WHY is it that mankind seems unable to ADAPT to a "warming climate"?
It is quite possible that there is absolutely nothing mankind can do to STOP the "warming". WHY are our governments making NO effort to adapt?

But then, there are little things like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ure-right.html

"Scientists disagree over its significance, but there is little doubt that the rapid warming of the 1980s and early 1990s has slowed – although greenhouse gas emissions have surged."

Last edited by Redraven; 01-18-2015 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Riding the light...
1,635 posts, read 1,806,385 times
Reputation: 1162
Yeah, I'll start worrying about global warming when those crying the loudest about global warming start acting like they believe there is such a thing as global warming and when Al Gore, et al, starts taking the bus.
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Old 01-18-2015, 02:59 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,863,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Since American political conservatives have been the main roadblock in official recognition of the problem, this is a giant step forward.
The main roadblock to tackling global warming has never been American conservatives, it's always been a rapidly growing and highly polluting (even relative to size of economy) China, which has to date never been willing to play ball on climate change in a way that is or should be acceptable to the West.

I've been saying this for years now and with China having surpassed America as the world's top CO2 emitter and only going further up, with China continuing to expect America and Europe to make super-deep cuts as they continue to emit more and more and more, I've been proven right on this by the events. The ball isn't in our court. Unless China decides it's worth doing something about global warming before it's too late nothing we do will matter. Sadly, it probably will be fairly soon and they haven't.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,072,954 times
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I'm honestly over the climate change debate. I really am.

I'm an environmentalist too. I care about the environment. A lot. But seriously, the discussion on the issue has led to no foreseeable improvements as neither side is offering sensible options or willing to make difficult decisions about how to improve our situations. The issue has become to political, and like most issues that reach this level of political controversy, it's hard to be unbiased.

It is a fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and that greenhouse gases trap heat. It is a fact that our current most used and reliable fuel source emits CO2. Logically, there is more CO2 in the air because of this and would likely have an impact on climate and the environment. It is also a fact that the Earth's climate changes, sometimes dramatically, from things that are outside of humanity's control.

Global warming is not the most pressing issue we face. And even if it was, why are the solutions from either side always the same? The right has at least been fairly consistent with their 'do nothing and support whatever big industry we want' approach and I applaud them for the consistency. The left continues to plug solar and natural energy, which is fine, but it's not really a solution. Theoretically, a capitalist economy would be able to get those new types of energy on the market, and if we were in fact a capitalist economy (which we aren't), those new types of energy could very well already be on the market and generating much of our power. Instead, what we have is the ideological clash of ideals, both in favor of a fictional free market. The right needs to stop favoring oil industry, no matter how many jobs it creates, and the left needs to stop trying to subsidize other industry instead.

And why global warming? There are serious problems with the environment and humanity's relationship with it, but it's not even the most alarming issue. Rapid deforestation, destruction of agricultural land, and ocean pollution seems like more serious issues, but for whatever reason, we think 'fixing' global warming will also fix those problems. It won't. In fact, deforestation should probably take precedence. Since the industrial revolution, half of the world's forests have been destroyed. That's unsustainable and will do serious damage if that same rate of deforestation continues. But if we stop and make an effort to restore at least some of the world's forest, we'll have done something to absorb CO2, create new lumber resources, and give habitat to animals who's habitat is being destroyed. Not only does reversing deforestation solve many problems deforestation has caused, it even lessens the burden of global warming and could in theory work to help the economy. Yet, it's discussed far less than the controversial, and therefore exciting, topic of global warming/climate change.

Science should never be politicized. Governments should work to fix problems before they occur. If rising sea levels is a problem, develop infrastructure in coastal cities to alleviate the problem ((aggressively points at Louisiana)). If CO2 emissions are too problematic and dependence on oil is causing it, invest in a public transportation service that is cheap and convenient that does not rely too heavily on burning fossil fuels (like a magnetic rail system). By over complicating our solutions or by making our ideas too invasive, we only make the problem worse. Keep things simple, affordable, and mutually beneficial and problems can alleviate themselves.

But I'm not a politician who profits off of having problems to say I can fix, so a solution that might work is much easier for me to suggest.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:08 PM
 
495 posts, read 607,947 times
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The solution to the problem could be to send chemicals on probes into space and strike them at the sun to reduce the amount of heat energy transmitting to earth. If we can't stop the greenhouse effect, maybe we can mitigate by weakening the sun's heat potential instead

There may be ways on earth as well to create global cooling to offset the global warming. Usually volcanic eruptions follow cooler weather, so we can trigger manmade volcanic eruptions to mitigate global warming maybe. I think these solutions stand a better chance than trying to control how many people drive cars. We should do that too but it's not going to work.

Nuking the sun with missiles might work better.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: NJ
23,360 posts, read 17,041,114 times
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Meanwhile children are being diagnosed and treated for problems related to scare tactics of human caused global warming forces.

When the science is 'settled' it is no longer science, it is a political agenda.

So how much money do we need to save the planet?
When will it be too late?
what happens if we do too much to prevent HCGW and the earth starts to cool?

Could we be in a natural cycle and the ego of humans once again tries to dominate nature?
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,072,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
Meanwhile children are being diagnosed and treated for problems related to scare tactics of human caused global warming forces.

When the science is 'settled' it is no longer science, it is a political agenda.

So how much money do we need to save the planet?
When will it be too late?
what happens if we do too much to prevent HCGW and the earth starts to cool?

Could we be in a natural cycle and the ego of humans once again tries to dominate nature?
Humans are an extension of nature. What we do does in fact affect nature because we are not separate from it. The most daunting example of human ego is believing we are above everything else when we are not. We can succumb to illness caused by single celled organisms or be left stranded or dead by naturally occurring floods or earthquakes, but we can also create anti-biotic, earthquakes resistance infrastructure, and irrigation systems designed to reduce the risks of flooding.

Humans are nature. What we do does play a part in the natural order of things. I don't believe we own everything or have the right to demolish entire forests or dump toxins into open water for our own personal gain.

I agree with your comment about science. Science should never be settled. Science should encourage skepticism and criticism because that is how science is done. The issue has been permanently stained by political agendas, by both the left and the right.

We simply need to think before we act. Is what we're doing sustainable? Is it necessary? What are the possibly outcomes? Do we truly have a right to destroy this much natural habitat? We need to stop pretending we own the Earth. We don't. It owns us.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:36 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,139,744 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericthebean View Post
The solution to the problem could be to send chemicals on probes into space and strike them at the sun to reduce the amount of heat energy transmitting to earth. If we can't stop the greenhouse effect, maybe we can mitigate by weakening the sun's heat potential instead

There may be ways on earth as well to create global cooling to offset the global warming. Usually volcanic eruptions follow cooler weather, so we can trigger manmade volcanic eruptions to mitigate global warming maybe. I think these solutions stand a better chance than trying to control how many people drive cars. We should do that too but it's not going to work.

Nuking the sun with missiles might work better.
I have heard some crazy solutions but that one takes the cake.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:37 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,940,599 times
Reputation: 17189
It's too late. The predictions have been made for decades that we would be dead or dying by now, so there is nothing we can do but die like predicted.
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