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I love how posters come in here, and go on about how wealth and income aren't related.
Nobody said they aren't related, but Mircea and others have said that they are not the same thing, and they aren't. Apple juice and apples are not the exact thing, but yes, they are related.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
Income drives wealth. The vast majority with sufficient income can grow wealth....which helps drive their income.
Income minus cost drives profit, and profit over time drives wealth. A person making $10 an hour, whose cost basis allows them to save $50 per week, generates wealth faster than a person who makes $100 an hour with a cost basis that only allows them to save $25 per week.
Yes, the person with the higher wages can make all the same choices as some with a lower wage and come out ahead, but the cost basis matters in the growth of wealth, just as much, if not more than income.
Here's an example, three people who want a $1,000 flat screen TV in 2015.
Person 1 - has a savings plan they refuse to deviate from, and under that plan, the flat screen TV is not in the cards for 2015. Total cost on flat screen TV this year = $0
Person 2 - wants the flat screen TV, but hates credit cards, so they manage to save up for the TV, and then they bargain hunt because they have the cash, so they get the TV at 15% off, and after taxes, pay $900 for the TV.
Person 3 - wants flat screen TV, sucks at saving money, but Best Buy will let them walk out the door with TV on the Best Buy card at 22% APR. They end up paying $1300 for the TV.
Same product, three different choices. If all 3 people have the same exact income, Person 1 ends the year with more wealth.
Income is one part of the wealth equation, but is not the sole determinant. Behavior and choices regarding cost have a huge role in both wealth creation and growth.
Consider that less than 1% serve their country in the armed services. that's where the 1% discussion should be, not some political propaganda promoting class warfare based on money.
Nobody said they aren't related, but Mircea and others have said that they are not the same thing, and they aren't. Apple juice and apples are not the exact thing, but yes, they are related.
I don't know of anyone who thinks they ARE the same thing. Heck the argument should be made that we should discuss wealth instead of income, but people freak out even more about that. Mircea and others make that foolish argument as a way of either insulting people, or of muddying the conversation. If you point out that you know exactly what they are, they want to discuss the fine points of earned vs's unearned income (something most people ALSO understand perfectly well). Why? Because they want to distract from the topic.
~10% actually. Anyway, someone coming in with $10 million would of course do better, and a large chunk of the income earned by the top 1% (and especially the top 0.5%) already is capital gains. Which is precisely my point -- rich and high-income, especially high wage-income, are distinct things. You can get a high income from already being rich but very, very few people can get rich through high income without taking a significant risk (or several) and winning the resulting gamble.
At a certain point theres very very little actual risk unless you are a idiot.
Me risking 250K on a investment paying 10% with a 2% rate of complete failure would be huge. Someone in the .1% risking 250K on 100 different things....isnt actually taking a risk.
I stopped reading here... had no idea this was a comedy thread.
This is very simple folks: When workers have more money, businesses have more customers--consumer spending accounts for 70% of our GDP. A thriving middle class isn't the consequence of business growth, it is the source of it.
The trickle-down explanation for economic growth holds that the richer the rich get, the better our economy does. But it also clearly implies that if the poor get poorer, that must be good for our economy too. Nonsense, but working and middle class right-wingers have bought it hook, line, and sinker.
Considering "trickle-down" is a left-wing fabrication used to demagogue people's perceived "abject" poverty, that's classy of you to project that phrase on to your "enemies."
Consider that less than 1% serve their country in the armed services. that's where the 1% discussion should be, not some political propaganda promoting class warfare based on money.
Yeah, really.
Why didn't they get their ass in the grass with the restivus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity
So I was curious and googled how much in assets it takes to break into the global 1%. As of 2013, it was something more than $100,000 and less than $1 million: Global Wealth Pyramid - Business Insider
It's a lot of money, but it's not outlandish -- if you contribute consistently to your 401K or calculate the NPV of a relatively generous pension (say retiring police officer or blue-state teacher) + own your home, you can easily hit that much around retirement. The top 10% (again, 2013 data) starts somewhere between $10 and $100K -- so if you're an American homeowner, you are probably in the global top 10%. Puts the privilege of American citizenship and opportunities in context.
Good job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
I love how posters come in here, and go on about how wealth and income aren't related.
Income drives wealth. The vast majority with sufficient income can grow wealth....which helps drive their income.
Income facilitates Wealth, but it is Demand that drives Wealth.
The theoretical value of your stocks does not increase because your income increases. It increases because little people like you are clamoring for trinkets and other materialistic things, and it is your Demand that drives Wealth.
The value of real estate does not increase because your income increases. It increases because little people like you are clamoring for Wal-Marts and Starsucks and corporate big box restaurants and....well, not Radio Shack obviously, and it is your Demand that drives Wealth.
The value of your home does not increase because your income increases, rather it increases because little people like you are clamoring for, and demanding McMansions.
We already discussed this on another thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Poor old women and men.
Diane takes $50 each week and buys a US Savings Bond. Dumbbroad spends $50 each week on scratch-off lotto.
Fast-forward 30 years.
Diane now has 1,560 $50 US Savings Bonds worth $156,000 plus interest. It will provide her with an additional $7,800 annually in income over the next 20 years of her life.
What does Dumbbroad have?
Zilch.
Obviously, the Liberal solution here is to take Diane's $7,800 annually she saved and give it to Dumbbroad who threw away all of her money to get instant self-gratification using scratch-off lotto tickets.
Because ignorant dumb-bells who act stupidly definitely deserve to be rewarded for acting so stupidly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
I'm not going to address the usual calling of names and hatred by Mircea,...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
What do you call people who needlessly waste money on useless things, then demand that everyone else give them more money to waste on useless things?
The Intelligent Class?
Would "Smartchick" make you feel better?
Diane is the intelligent person....obviously, that went way over your head.
Seeing how you can't tell the difference between Income and Wealth, I guess it's no surprise that you do not know the difference between contempt and hatred.
If you recall, you punked yourself on the internet.
The Three D's of Wealth:
1] Discipline
2] Desire
3] Demand
If you don't have the discipline to build Wealth, then you never will have Wealth.
If you don't have the desire to build Wealth, you won't have any either. Here's your typical Liberal Millennial:
What? Me? I'm supposed to go in with another Millennial and buy a 2-family home so that we can build Wealth? But, I'd have to share....eeeewwww...sharing is so 'gay'.
If there is no Demand for your stocks, then they never increase in Wealth; no Demand for real estate and your assets never increase in Wealth; no Demand for homes in your neighborhood and your home never increase in value, and thus your Wealth does not increase.
In fact, you could claim that Wealth is exclusively the result of Demand-pull Inflation.
No Demand-pull Inflation, no Wealth.
Finally, neither you nor anyone else has addressed the lies and deception in OXFAM's claims:
Quote:
Wealth: Having It All and Wanting More, a research paper published today by Oxfam, shows that the richest 1 percent have seen their share of global wealth increase from 44 percent in 2009 to 48 percent in 2014 and at this rate will be more than 50 percent in 2016. Members of this global elite had an average wealth of $2.7 million per adult in 2014.
This...
Members of this global elite had an average wealth of $2.7 million per adult in 2014.
....is classic NAZI-style propaganda predicated on this fallacy:
Misrepresentation If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.
Demand drives Wealth...
I think we have lost sight of who the "global elite" are. I know several people who have $2.7 million per person and they are just normal everyday people that you could never pick out of a crowd. Why do so many on this board think somebody with $2.7 million is elite?
There are 9.6 million households just in the USA that have a net worth excluding their home of a million dollars. And there are 132,000 with $25 million or more.
And that's just the USA. Why do we call these millions of people "the elite"?
In my book, if you don't have at least 100 million you are not the elite. You are just another person with some wealth.
Think of it this way. If the global elite are 1% of the world's population, that's over 71 million people. So why are so many on this board whining that 71 million people have more than half of the worlds wealth?
I think we have lost sight of who the "global elite" are. I know several people who have $2.7 million per person and they are just normal everyday people that you could never pick out of a crowd. Why do so many on this board think somebody with $2.7 million is elite?
There are 9.6 million households just in the USA that have a net worth excluding their home of a million dollars. And there are 132,000 with $25 million or more.
And that's just the USA. Why do we call these millions of people "the elite"?
In my book, if you don't have at least 100 million you are not the elite. You are just another person with some wealth.
Think of it this way. If the global elite are 1% of the world's population, that's over 71 million people. So why are so many on this board whining that 71 million people have more than half of the worlds wealth?
Feel free to correct my math.
agreed!
People need to realize that these so called rich people are small business owners and doctors and lawyers and frequent-flier mile hoarding executives rising up the corporate letterhead. They got there through advanced education, through marrying someone just like themselves, and then laying on long hours of hard work, and people who have had inheritance and always lived within their means.
You’re not rich in the Hollywood sense until you attain the top 1/100th of the 1%, with an annual income of at least $10.2 million.
I can tell you, as a member of the recently anointed Global Elite, it ain't all it's cracked up to be.
I still have to get up at 4:00 AM and go to work every weekday. I still worry about whether my wife and I will be able to make our money last throughout our retirement. We don't drive fancy cars, in fact the average age of our cars is over 8 years old. We don't take fancy vacations, in fact most of the time you will find us camping somewhere rather than staying in a fancy hotel. On top of all that I can't recall anyone ever calling me asking if I'd like to influence some issue of global significance to my benefit.
Dave
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