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Old 01-29-2015, 01:26 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,781,715 times
Reputation: 6509

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
It's been ~30 since accurate numbers were given to lawmakers.



What utter BS. A few thousand temporary construction jobs that will last 2 years and a few thousand existing refinery jobs. It's worth it for temporary jobs? Poisoning our land and jacking up the price of gas so a Canadian company can export oil to China is worth it? And cut the crap with what Democrats want. Democrats want strong union jobs, with good benefits and job security. It's Republicans that are gutting the middle class by eliminating unions and removing power from workers.



We need to keep the tar sands oil out of America altogether. If it were safe then Canada would be refining and exporting it themselves, using a much shorter, cheaper pipeline with direct access to the Pacific to export overseas.
What the Hoover damn worth it? The Golden Gate Bridge? The Brooklyn bridge? The transcontinental rail road? Only creating a few thousand temporary jobs and employing 30 people full time, destroying land in the process. Probably should not have done any of them.

People who work construction understand the nature of construction. Their is not such thing as a permanent construction job. They continually more from one job to the next to the next to the next.

And how does refining more oil increase the cost of gas?

Maybe some permanent minimum wage jobs would be better for the country than on going, high paying, family feeding, not needing government welfare, construction jobs.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 3,170,424 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
What the Hoover damn worth it? The Golden Gate Bridge? The Brooklyn bridge? The transcontinental rail road? Only creating a few thousand temporary jobs and employing 30 people full time, destroying land in the process. Probably should not have done any of them.
Those projects all benefit Americans to this day. They have an incalculable positive impact on America. The Keystone XL pipeline benefits Canada and China.

Quote:
People who work construction understand the nature of construction. Their is not such thing as a permanent construction job. They continually more from one job to the next to the next to the next.
Well then let's just allow every foreign nation to seize American land and use it as they see fit to keep construction workers busy.

Quote:
And how does refining more oil increase the cost of gas?
It's not refining more oil, it's refining less American oil and more foreign oil. It will reduce the amount of oil that stays in America which will increase prices. This is basic stuff.

[/quote]Maybe some permanent minimum wage jobs would be better for the country than on going, high paying, family feeding, not needing government welfare, construction jobs.[/quote]

Yeah, those 2-year jobs for a few thousand people are really going to turn the economy around, huh? I mean, it's not like Obama has been putting jobs bills to Congress for 4 years or anything. Oh wait...
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,781,715 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
Those projects all benefit Americans to this day. They have an incalculable positive impact on America. The Keystone XL pipeline benefits Canada and China.



Well then let's just allow every foreign nation to seize American land and use it as they see fit to keep construction workers busy.



It's not refining more oil, it's refining less American oil and more foreign oil. It will reduce the amount of oil that stays in America which will increase prices. This is basic stuff.
Maybe some permanent minimum wage jobs would be better for the country than on going, high paying, family feeding, not needing government welfare, construction jobs.[/quote]

Yeah, those 2-year jobs for a few thousand people are really going to turn the economy around, huh? I mean, it's not like Obama has been putting jobs bills to Congress for 4 years or anything. Oh wait...[/quote]

Seeing as how oil is a global commodity, the more oil refined, the cheaper it costs for everyone.

It is refining more oil total, the oil from America would still be refined with the oil from Canada, like the oil from Mexico, like the oil from Saudi Arabia, and like the oil from the other countries we refine.

The thousands of people employed will appreciate those jobs, it will help the economy, and they will most likely be union members who's dues go right into democrats pockets for election. You should be all for it.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 3,170,424 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Seeing as how oil is a global commodity, the more oil refined, the cheaper it costs for everyone.
That's not how it works, you clod. The greater the cost to acquire, refine and distribute the oil the more expensive it is in the market it enters.

Quote:
It is refining more oil total, the oil from America would still be refined with the oil from Canada, like the oil from Mexico, like the oil from Saudi Arabia, and like the oil from the other countries we refine.
It's NOT refining more oil. There haven't been any new refineries built to accommodate the additional tar sands oil. Our refineries are already above capacity so American oil will have to be sidelined to make room for the tar sands oil, which will be exported. Tar sands oil that will, by the way, put much more stress on our aged refining infrastructure.

Quote:
The thousands of people employed will appreciate those jobs, it will help the economy, and they will most likely be union members who's dues go right into democrats pockets for election. You should be all for it.
First of all, oil companies don't like unions. They're the largest contributors to politicians, pacs and thinktanks that combat unions. Second, the pros have to be weighed against the cons. The pros column for the KXL is utterly dwarfed by the cons column.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:01 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,781,715 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
That's not how it works, you clod. The greater the cost to acquire, refine and distribute the oil the more expensive it is in the market it enters.



It's NOT refining more oil. There haven't been any new refineries built to accommodate the additional tar sands oil. Our refineries are already above capacity so American oil will have to be sidelined to make room for the tar sands oil, which will be exported. Tar sands oil that will, by the way, put much more stress on our aged refining infrastructure.



First of all, oil companies don't like unions. They're the largest contributors to politicians, pacs and thinktanks that combat unions. Second, the pros have to be weighed against the cons. The pros column for the KXL is utterly dwarfed by the cons column.
If the oil wasn't marketable at the price point they wouldn't want to build the pipeline

Though the number of refineries hasn't increased, the size of the refineries we have has. We have the capacity to refine more oil, and if in the future, it becomes stretched we could them build more refineries. Probabky only be 30 permanent jobs at the refinery though
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:11 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 3,170,424 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
If the oil wasn't marketable at the price point they wouldn't want to build the pipeline
It wasn't that long ago that we were paying more than twice what we're paying now for gas. I have no idea how you interpreted my post so poorly.

Quote:
Though the number of refineries hasn't increased, the size of the refineries we have has. We have the capacity to refine more oil, and if in the future, it becomes stretched we could them build more refineries. Probabky only be 30 permanent jobs at the refinery though
There hasn't been a complex refinery built in America since the mid-70's. Building new refineries to handle this disgusting, dangerous tar sands oil is a nonstarter. As for expanded capacity, the infrastructure is so outdated that capacity has been virtually stagnant because the older equipment breaks down as fast as new equipment is put in place.
And oil companies have already admitted that the KXL will likely increase gas prices in America.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,781,715 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
It wasn't that long ago that we were paying more than twice what we're paying now for gas. I have no idea how you interpreted my post so poorly.



There hasn't been a complex refinery built in America since the mid-70's. Building new refineries to handle this disgusting, dangerous tar sands oil is a nonstarter. As for expanded capacity, the infrastructure is so outdated that capacity has been virtually stagnant because the older equipment breaks down as fast as new equipment is put in place.
And oil companies have already admitted that the KXL will likely increase gas prices in America.
We are already expanding our current refineries and have the capacity to refine more.

Eighteen projects scattered across the U.S. Gulf Coast, the Midwest and the Rocky Mountain region will help increase refining capacity by as much as 600,000 barrels a day, according to Aaron Brady, senior director of IHS in Cambridge, Mass.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...76962979450296

By the time keystone is built we will be able to refine, use or export all the additional oil coming in, keeping prices low and growing the economy.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,002 posts, read 50,974,638 times
Reputation: 28182
I guess the Koch's aren't all that into steel.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:39 PM
 
58,610 posts, read 26,924,330 times
Reputation: 14136
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
You have no idea about unions. They look out for the middle class.
They look out for their leaders.

When they cause a place to close because they refused to accept a new contact and all the workers get laid off, do ANY of the big union leaders ever loose their jobs? I think not!
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:44 PM
 
58,610 posts, read 26,924,330 times
Reputation: 14136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Obama was listing off all these accomplishments during the SOTU address and Repubs were pouting over the good news. Even if it's all fluff it still made them look foolish on national TV.

Equal pay for women and the GOP was silent? LOL..

I'm sure they tacked on a few things to the bill but it still makes the GOP look stupid on the surface and that's what politics are all about. This will be used against them.
Appently you are not up on laws.

There is ALREADY a law for equal pay.

While you are complaining about the repubs where is your gripe with Obama about equal pay for women?

You DO there was a story about it, don't you.

Oh wait, you ONLY complain about repubs. My bad.
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