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Up until about the late 70's early 80's YES the US did a very good job of providing special support for those that needed it; reading programs, speech programs, whatever ... but then groups said they were damaging the students by pointing out THEY were the ones needing special programs ... SO then no-one got them and we lowered the bar so everyone could pass ....
Yep. That's exactly what happened. The result? U.S. public schools only educate 1/3 of all graduates to 12th grade level proficiency in math and reading.
Maybe I can answer some of the questions...
We are definitely not politically correct. We can say pretty much what we like. Even within Nordic countries we differ largely on this issue. Finland and Denmark are very NOT politically correct, Sweden is extremely correct, and Norway is somewhere in-between.
Say what? There are less Sami people than Chinese people here. We do however have two official languages: Finnish and Swedish. We also have two separate schools: Finnish and Swedish. It has never been a problem.
The PISA testing is done in the last year of primary school - eg the 9th grade - a year before vocational high schools or academic high schools.
Well, it's possible to adopt everything else if you like. 80% of Americans speak English as their first language. There are schools in Finland in the big cities where less than 50% speak Finnish as their first languages.
There's at least 150 language spoken in Helsinki, and the school system hasn't collapsed. The one on one education is in FINNISH, not the pupils native language. Also, these classes are very few.
Lunches and counseling go from the school budget, medical care from the healthcare budget, and the taxi service is subsisied from the municipal budget. The taxi service exists only in sparse rural area, in normal situations the pupils take the normal buses along with all other commuters.
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While Finland is definitely still a pretty homogenous country with two traditional languages Finnish and Swedish, the situation is rapidly changing, at least in the big cities of the south. The immigrant population has grown some 4500% since 1990, and it's quite normal to have schools in big cities where 30% or even 50% of all pupils are of non-Finnish immigrant descent. The school system hasn't crumbled down due to growing multiculturalism.
There has also been pilot projects for example in Spain and Italy, where a few schools have adopted the Finnish model. And it has shown to be working in those countries too.
The biggest gain is that being a teacher is respected and requires a high-class 5-year university education. Generally teachers are very professional and can cope with all kinds of students and challenges. Also, all schools are guaranteed the same high-class standards, therefore there's no "good" or "bad" schools here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz
First of all, good post and thanks for all that info.
What about teachers' unions in Finland? Are public schools unionized? Most if not all public schools here are unionized. It was not so prior to around approx. 35 years ago, and in my opinion has been a big downfall for public education in the US.
The public sector unions (including teachers' unions) donate campaign case to get in place the politicos they want. Then when contract negotiations come along, the public officials sitting on one side of the table are beholden to the union officials on the other side. The union is there to represent the best interest of the teachers and other ed. workers, not the students.
Ariete: Thanks & respect for your insights!
wutitiz: Many folks are most likely interested in the impact of unions, the following contains questions re:
I am "Liberal" and I say Money(or lack thereof) is NOT a major factor in why our schools do so poorly.
First of all, not all schools do "so poorly". Secondly, I agree with the money thing to a point. The DC schools are an object lesson for sure, with their high per-pupil expenditures. But when the per-pupil gets *too* low, I think it does impact the schools.
The problem is that you have such different ethnic and demagraphic differences that make USA education a huge never-ending challenge. I grew up in New Orleans and a large swath of my fellow students were never about to be educated to the level of the Finnish who are largely a ethnically similar group. Most of the students where I grew up performed under the national average but I tested in the top 1% despite poor schooling...why, I'm not sure. DC schools are a good example of no matter how much money you spend ($30+K per student/yr), you may still have the poorest performing schools in the nation...and they do.
One thing that interested me is that in Finnland, it is competitive to become a Teacher. When I graduated HS, some of the biggest idiots I knew became teachers...that doesn't bode well.
The two-tier track would be a good idea. Academically capable students go to the universities, while everyone else learns a marketable trade. That would reduce the epidemic of having a army of no skill workers who demand McDonalds and Walmart pay a high wage.
The two-tier track would be a good idea. Academically capable students go to the universities, while everyone else learns a marketable trade. That would reduce the epidemic of having a army of no skill workers who demand McDonalds and Walmart pay a high wage.
We have something like that. In my high school, it was called college prep and tech prep. Truth is, alot of students in my alma mater chose tech prep because it was the easy way out. Some of those students were the ones who were in it just to get by. Some of them ended up at places like McDonalds and WalMart anyway.
We have something like that. In my high school, it was called college prep and tech prep. Truth is, alot of students in my alma mater chose tech prep because it was the easy way out. Some of those students were the ones who were in it just to get by. Some of them ended up at places like McDonalds and WalMart anyway.
We had "tech prep" but it was basically a low-level academic track. There was also a "tech school" which gave students a taste of training and working in various trades. But ultimately you still had to go to community college/regular college afterward to get the certifications or degrees required to be employable.
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and we lowered the bar so everyone could pass 
....
