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actually most private schools are able to accommodate,,, special needs is funded under federal (see IDEA)
Actually not.
Most private schools refer students they deem high risk for learning differences to public schools for testing and when necessary, a plan. The private school will typically accommodate a student with more test time. Some may have access to assistive technology. In other words, accommodation is limited.
Qualified private school students may participate in public education programs with transportation provided by the public budget.
There may be differences state to state and district to district within state.
1) The US is comprised of states, which ought to make it manageable on a state-by-state basis.
2) Why would diversity make quality education impossible? Seems somewhat xenophobic IMHO.
3) Teachers have little autonomy and respect by the public in the US, unlike in Finland. Isn't this something that can be addressed, while adopting the Finnish approaches that can be implemented now?
Other than these, why else wouldn't it be better if the US modeled its education system after one that is proven successful -- not only in terms of academics, but also of the students' well-being?
The US comprises states. It is not comprised of them.
I'd rather see us adopt the German system of education. Compulsory attendance from age 6 to 15. Until age 10, all kids go to the same kind of school where they learn the basics of language and maths. Then they go into 1 of 3 different kinds of schools, depending on their abilities and interests.
The lowest, the Hauptschule, provides basic education and its diploma qualifies holders for an apprenticeship in a trade. For 3 years an apprentice combines on-the-job training with classes in a Berufsschule, or vocational school.
Other students go to a Realschule. This is a middle course for more more average-type students. These may also decide on an apprenticeship in a trade, but the Realschules more demanding education also qualifies them for apprenticeships in a bank or in a dental lab, etc., those sort of things.
Or, Realschule graduates can attend a Fachoberschule, the degree allowing them to transfer to a technical college (fachhochschule) or Universitat, the only institution which can grant doctorates.
The best students, having the ability and inclination, go to a Gymansium. From there, they can to to a Fachhochschule or Universitat. These kids will be the lawyers, doctors, etc., scientists, engineers.
We send far too many kids to college, which is like the German Universitat. There can never be enough jobs to employ profitably all these graduates: far too many chiefs, not enough Indians. At the same time, we fail to train kids for jobs in factories, bake shops, etc. So we drive Fords and eat white bread and the kids stand on street corners making trouble and we pay through the nose for the mess.
I'd rather see us adopt the German system of education. Compulsory attendance from age 6 to 15. Until age 10, all kids go to the same kind of school where they learn the basics of language and maths. Then they go into 1 of 3 different kinds of schools, depending on their abilities and interests.
Bingo! The fact that U.S. schools don't do that is what is dragging average and top students down.
Finland is no longer in the top ten in math test scores. The Asian countries continue to test better. China remains at the top. Specifically, the city of Shanghai which trends privledged urban children is at the top.
Shanghi is not representative of China's educational system and excludes migrant children.
The school day in Shanghi elapses 12-14 hours with 2 hour breaks for lunch and dinner. Students return to school after dinner till 8- 9 PM. They do homework/ receive private tutoring during lunch and dinner breaks as well as after school closes. Students are not parked in front of TV, participating in sports or other extracurricular activities. They are also not smoking pot, engaging in other drugs or alcohol or after school jobs.
I believe Boston has the best PISA scores in the US. When adjusted for poverty , Boston scores are not top ten material. It's a different culture and focus than the " pressure cooker" schools in some Asian countries/ cities.
Finland like all the other Nordic countries is uber-Liberal, extremely politically correct and they have no problems with Big Government dictating how they are supposed to live and most dont mind paying outrageous taxes. No thanks!
We are definitely not politically correct. We can say pretty much what we like. Even within Nordic countries we differ largely on this issue. Finland and Denmark are very NOT politically correct, Sweden is extremely correct, and Norway is somewhere in-between.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
That's because Finland is a Dual-State consisting of two nations: the Finns and the Lapps.
Say what? There are less Sami people than Chinese people here. We do however have two official languages: Finnish and Swedish. We also have two separate schools: Finnish and Swedish. It has never been a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
More than half of Finnish students attend vocational highschools to learn how to work the front line of retail, hospitality and food services. Do these students participate in PISA testing? I don't know.
The PISA testing is done in the last year of primary school - eg the 9th grade - a year before vocational high schools or academic high schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
More than 70% of Finn students are native born and Lutheran. They do provide one on one language training for non- native speakers. Given the students in the NYC school system speak about 200 different languages, can you imagine one on one instruction?
The Finnish School System also includes a weekly religious class and most students are Lutheran. They do accommodate other religion and athiests. In contrasts, there are hundreds of faiths in the US.
Can you imagine US public schools holding weekly Religious classes for Muslims the way the Finns do?
Well, it's possible to adopt everything else if you like. 80% of Americans speak English as their first language. There are schools in Finland in the big cities where less than 50% speak Finnish as their first languages.
There's at least 150 language spoken in Helsinki, and the school system hasn't collapsed. The one on one education is in FINNISH, not the pupils native language. Also, these classes are very few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
Without knowing what is included/ excluded in the per pupil cost it's challenging to compare.
All Finish students recieve a hot and nutritious lunch, medical care, counseling and when necessary taxi service to/ from school. Are these costs a part of the education budget or something else?
Lunches and counseling go from the school budget, medical care from the healthcare budget, and the taxi service is subsisied from the municipal budget. The taxi service exists only in sparse rural area, in normal situations the pupils take the normal buses along with all other commuters.
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While Finland is definitely still a pretty homogenous country with two traditional languages Finnish and Swedish, the situation is rapidly changing, at least in the big cities of the south. The immigrant population has grown some 4500% since 1990, and it's quite normal to have schools in big cities where 30% or even 50% of all pupils are of non-Finnish immigrant descent. The school system hasn't crumbled down due to growing multiculturalism.
There has also been pilot projects for example in Spain and Italy, where a few schools have adopted the Finnish model. And it has shown to be working in those countries too.
The biggest gain is that being a teacher is respected and requires a high-class 5-year university education. Generally teachers are very professional and can cope with all kinds of students and challenges. Also, all schools are guaranteed the same high-class standards, therefore there's no "good" or "bad" schools here.
Finland consistently tops worldwide student rankings in math, science and reading, while the US ranks average...at best.
Yet unlike the US, Finland education eschews academic competition, standardized testing, rigid rules or stress. The idea of 'failure' doesn't exist -- students who struggle are coached individually in ways tailored to them and their needs. Rather than the authoritarian fear and punishment centered faculty-student relationship in the US, the Finnish student-faculty relationship is collaborative and nurturing.
And perhaps most surprisingly, is that the US spends much more per student -- about 50% more, in fact.
Americans have argued against adopting the Nordic approach to education because they claim the US is too big and diverse to pull it off. And that the teachers aren't good enough.
1) The US is comprised of states, which ought to make it manageable on a state-by-state basis.
2) Why would diversity make quality education impossible? Seems somewhat xenophobic IMHO.
3) Teachers have little autonomy and respect by the public in the US, unlike in Finland. Isn't this something that can be addressed, while adopting the Finnish approaches that can be implemented now?
Other than these, why else wouldn't it be better if the US modeled its education system after one that is proven successful -- not only in terms of academics, but also of the students' well-being?
No-
The US should deport all of its students and replace them with Finnish students. Then the exam scores and performance would improve.
It is nearly impossible to educate a nation of half-wits raised in drug addled, single parent families on generational welfare and expect to produce engineers, computer scientists, and physicians. The apple does not fall far from the tree.
Education starts at the level of the family; the US is too blind and politically correct to admit and confront the root of the problem, therefore no improvement will ever be made.
This 'reason' makes absolutely no sense. Who wouldn't benefit from personalized support and nurturing of one's individual learning style?
Moreover, does the current American schooling actually do a better job of reaching the diverse student body? In fact, is it truly optimal for anyone?
Up until about the late 70's early 80's YES the US did a very good job of providing special support for those that needed it; reading programs, speech programs, whatever ... but then groups said they were damaging the students by pointing out THEY were the ones needing special programs ... SO then no-one got them and we lowered the bar so everyone could pass or .... Is it a good idea to provide special support for those that need it ? Sure it is, but doing it how a country with a basically homogeneous society does it won't work to well in a county that has members of every social class, religion, nationality, whatever.
The diversity in the US is one of the reasons we have grown to a major world superpower in a relatively short time...
There has also been pilot projects for example in Spain and Italy, where a few schools have adopted the Finnish model. And it has shown to be working in those countries too.
The biggest gain is that being a teacher is respected and requires a high-class 5-year university education. Generally teachers are very professional and can cope with all kinds of students and challenges. Also, all schools are guaranteed the same high-class standards, therefore there's no "good" or "bad" schools here.
First of all, good post and thanks for all that info.
What about teachers' unions in Finland? Are public schools unionized? Most if not all public schools here are unionized. It was not so prior to around approx. 35 years ago, and in my opinion has been a big downfall for public education in the US.
The public sector unions (including teachers' unions) donate campaign case to get in place the politicos they want. Then when contract negotiations come along, the public officials sitting on one side of the table are beholden to the union officials on the other side. The union is there to represent the best interest of the teachers and other ed. workers, not the students.
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and we lowered the bar so everyone could pass or 
.... Is it a good idea to provide special support for those that need it ? Sure it is, but doing it how a country with a basically homogeneous society does it won't work to well in a county that has members of every social class, religion, nationality, whatever.
