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Old 01-25-2015, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325

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I frequently disagree with her positions, but this time she's absolutely correct to defend the Fourth Amendment.
--------------
I have a real fundamental question, because this line drawing is only here because we've now created a Fourth Amendment entitlement to search for drugs using dogs, whenever anybody's stopped. Because that's what you're proposing. And is that really what the Fourth Amendment should permit?

...we can't keep bending the Fourth Amendment to the resources of law enforcement. Particularly when this stop is not—is not incidental to the purpose of the stop. It's purely to help the police get more criminals, yes. But then the Fourth Amendment becomes a useless piece of paper.

Sotomayor to Justice Department Lawyer: 'We Can't Keep Bending the Fourth Amendment to the Resources of Law Enforcement' - Hit & Run : Reason.com

And think about this; if we eliminate the war on drugs, LE would have much fewer opportunities to abuse their power. A huge number of LE abuse of power is all about drugs.
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Old 01-25-2015, 08:24 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,519,803 times
Reputation: 10096
The drugs issue should be a state by state issue. But that is really a different topic.

I agree with you that Sotomayor makes good points here that need to be seriously considered. I also disagree with her about seemingly almost everything, so this moment is noteworthy for me also.

While the police are not the enemy, we should not defer to them as if anything they want to do is OK.

The fourth amendment needs to be protected, and so do we - from our own government. And that is what the fourth amendment is purposed to do.
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Old 01-25-2015, 08:45 AM
 
59,059 posts, read 27,306,837 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
I frequently disagree with her positions, but this time she's absolutely correct to defend the Fourth Amendment.
--------------
I have a real fundamental question, because this line drawing is only here because we've now created a Fourth Amendment entitlement to search for drugs using dogs, whenever anybody's stopped. Because that's what you're proposing. And is that really what the Fourth Amendment should permit?

...we can't keep bending the Fourth Amendment to the resources of law enforcement. Particularly when this stop is not—is not incidental to the purpose of the stop. It's purely to help the police get more criminals, yes. But then the Fourth Amendment becomes a useless piece of paper.

Sotomayor to Justice Department Lawyer: 'We Can't Keep Bending the Fourth Amendment to the Resources of Law Enforcement' - Hit & Run : Reason.com

And think about this; if we eliminate the war on drugs, LE would have much fewer opportunities to abuse their power. A huge number of LE abuse of power is all about drugs.
" It's purely to help the police get more criminals," Isn't that what they are supposed to do?

I guess you would rather the police leave criminals alone.

If you DON'T carrry ilegal drugs the dogs will walk right on by you.

"if you can't do the time, don't commit the crime"
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,862 posts, read 24,111,507 times
Reputation: 15135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
If you DON'T carrry ilegal drugs the dogs will walk right on by you.
They can trigger the dogs to signal. And they don't even need the dog to signal - they can just SAY that he did. The dog can't testify that he didn't, right?
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,955 posts, read 7,199,177 times
Reputation: 2308
Broken clocks like her and Liz Warren are right twice a day.
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,788,539 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" It's purely to help the police get more criminals," Isn't that what they are supposed to do?

I guess you would rather the police leave criminals alone.

If you DON'T carrry ilegal drugs the dogs will walk right on by you.

"if you can't do the time, don't commit the crime"


Remember when alcohol was illegal? How well did that turn out?

It's one thing to "get REAL criminals" those truly bad people who would do harm to others, and quite another to manufacture a class of crime for the sake of filling corporate prisons with slave labor, and used to steal property from law-abiding relatives and landlords.

"if it's a horrible law, don't pass it!"

Sotomayor got it right!
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,884 posts, read 10,975,748 times
Reputation: 14180
By any definition, the "War On Drugs" has been, and will continue to be, an abject and total failure. Therefore, it would appear that there is no logical reason to continue it.
Return on investment? ZERO! Literally millions of dollars have been spent, and we are no better off now than we were when it all started.
Lives saved? NEGATIVE! In fact, it has COST innumerable lives!
Betterment of Society? NONE! In fact, drug related crime seems to be at an all-time high!
IMO, it is time to stop the silliness!
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,788,539 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
By any definition, the "War On Drugs" has been, and will continue to be, an abject and total failure. Therefore, it would appear that there is no logical reason to continue it.
Return on investment? ZERO! Literally millions of dollars have been spent, and we are no better off now than we were when it all started.
Lives saved? NEGATIVE! In fact, it has COST innumerable lives!
Betterment of Society? NONE! In fact, drug related crime seems to be at an all-time high!
IMO, it is time to stop the silliness!
Actually, it is estimated that more than $1Trillion has been wasted on this ridiculous war. This doesn't take into account the billions of dollars funneled to the legal system (cops, lawyers, bondsmen, bounty hunters, prisons...etc.) by the victims of this war on citizens over the decades.

This has been an atrocious method of funneling wealth away from the poor to the pockets of the people waging the war.
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:38 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,095,474 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
By any definition, the "War On Drugs" has been, and will continue to be, an abject and total failure. Therefore, it would appear that there is no logical reason to continue it.
Return on investment? ZERO! Literally millions of dollars have been spent, and we are no better off now than we were when it all started.
Lives saved? NEGATIVE! In fact, it has COST innumerable lives!
Betterment of Society? NONE! In fact, drug related crime seems to be at an all-time high!
IMO, it is time to stop the silliness!
Absolutely dead on.
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:53 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" It's purely to help the police get more criminals," Isn't that what they are supposed to do?
Their job is to uphold the laws.....all of them. Even the ones that grant citizens the protections against illegal search and seizures.
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