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Today you would find the same class of men dressed in Brooks Brothers clothes and doing the well groomed preppy Uptown living "thing".
I'm sure our first President would look silly by today's standards.
I'm just saying there will always be different types of men (and women ) who express themselves through their external appearance and that's not a bad thing.
There will always be Americans. They will not always be descended from northern Europeans but will come from all over the world and bring their cultures with them to create a mixed culture called American.
America will always be here, just different. Just like it always has been. Different.
You are wrong and wrong again.
First, you are wrong because there will not always be a political entity known as "America". Eventually, America will fall. The circumstances under which this will happen are hard to predict, but historically speaking, every great nation falls.
Second, you are wrong because America is more, or was more, than just another nation-state. America stood for something, America was a philosophy, a way of life. If the population that occupies the space on the map that is called "America" changes, it may still be the same on paper, but that which made America, America will be gone.
I don't watch a lot of broadcast television so my knowledge of Howie Mandel comes from the days when he was a young comedian. I saw him in an ad yesterday and I thought --- TWO EARRINGS? You girlyman!
I do think men are becoming more feminine and fussy. I hate it . And it all went to hell when they started wearing an earring, smelling like a hooker, having their nails buffed and spraying their hair. I don't remember what period that was because I'm older than dirt, but they should mark it in the history books as the decline of civilization.
I remember being appalled that OJ Simpson wore wore girly shoes like I expected the heinous crime he did but was shocked about the expensive sissy shoes he wore. That goes for you too, George Clooney, serial womanizer, sissy shoe wearer.
Men, kill the tassels on the slip on shoes. A man bag is still a pocketbook. Getting your hair cut in a hair salon is bad enough but if the "stylist" reaches for the hairspray, you need to put your foot down. You can call it what you want but that stinky man stuff is still perfume. Shiny colorful itsy bitsy underwear is revolting as is an over obsession about how you look in the mirror. A bracelet is a bracelet even if you put it on a hairy wrist. Nail polish is nail polish even if it's clear and you're an aggressive stock trader with a firm handshake.
And since I'm on my soapbox, I would like to say something about the "heroes" Hollywood is foisting on us these days. Stop picking your leading men from prep school yearbooks! We're not buying the Jude Laws, Tobey McGuires, Orlando Blooms, Matt Damons, Ashton Kutchers, Matthew Brodericks, Topher Graces, Jake Gyllenhaals, Ewan McGregors, etc., in manly man leading roles. You can put Orlando Bloom on a horse or put Jude Law in an aircraft and they still look like guys who wore short pants to school a few years back . (This is not to say any of the aforementioned are bad actors, just miscast in manly leading man roles.) Hollywood, can you not find a leading man who looks like a blue-collar type instead of some rich kid wuss. I don't care if they are gay or straight in real life, it's not a sexual orientation issue but an image issue - just stop with the wussies as leading men.
And since this is a political forum, there are three male candidates (2 Dems, 1 Republican) who I think still tie their sweaters around their neck and I don't want them as Commander In Chief. So, there!
Gasp! You didn't just go there with Orlando Bloom! I can't imagine looking at him and not thinking manly and hot! Regardless of whether his hair is long and platinum blond or he's wearing a bandana on a pirate ship. Sigh! I wonder what you think of Johnny Depp? Hm, wait, don't answer that cause I might cry.
I agree Topper, it would be interesting to see this topic broken down by age, from both genders.
Last edited by MooksterL1; 01-10-2008 at 07:30 PM..
The circumstances under which this will happen are hard to predict, but historically speaking, every great nation falls.
Day to day life and technology progressed VERY slowly to the point of the US becoming a superpower. While the US has been a superpower, day to day life and technology have progressed at an incredible pace. The point is superpowers nowadays are in a very different position than superpowers in the past.
"historically speaking, every great nation falls" is a statement in itself that is historically outdated in my opinion. I'm not saying anything for certain but I really don't think we can rely on that idea for superpowers any longer.
First, you are wrong because there will not always be a political entity known as "America". Eventually, America will fall. The circumstances under which this will happen are hard to predict, but historically speaking, every great nation falls.
Second, you are wrong because America is more, or was more, than just another nation-state. America stood for something, America was a philosophy, a way of life. If the population that occupies the space on the map that is called "America" changes, it may still be the same on paper, but that which made America, America will be gone.
I agree on both points. I have often thought, for one, that this nation never really developed a culture that is essentially "American" (too young), and the massive immigration, industrialization, other changes have further diuted any "hope" of America (whatever it is) nurturing a viable entity....other than economic power (but no more, shipped the mfg to China) or world policeman (becoming corrupt).
As this applies to the "feminization of the Amer male" issue, I feel that this, again, was an attempt at rather MASSIVE change in the structure of family and the identity of both sexes...on a very personal level, and not only economically. This has seriously weakened the family structure overall in this country and YES I do believe that many immigrants do have more children (of course, look at the stats), which the Caucasian "elite" (pffft) bought into this cr.p on too many levels.....thus, I do feel that this weakening of traditional gender roles is just one more change that will, eventually, weaken this country. It's like the US has post traumatic stress from too much change....the statistics in W (and E) Europe are ALARMING, including Russia, which considers population drain a major problem. There was an article in the NY Times about this, how some of the E Euro countries are virtually emptying of most people 20 and up...period, nothing but Grandma's sitting in the parks with no one to help raise. Seriously. It's somewhat a by product, th ere, of the Soviet bloc, whic has harmed the Western world dramatically and will for centuries to come. These are all, to anyone c oncerned, compelling reasons to reconsider "feminsm" as a reason....not to have children, frankly....the kids are getting too much hype, go ahead and have "relations", birth control okay, hey, get married maybe at 35 and have ONE kid. Not good.
Every great nation fails, but I feel we have greatly accelerated the process. The country is not that OLD.
Day to day life and technology progressed VERY slowly to the point of the US becoming a superpower. While the US has been a superpower, day to day life and technology have progressed at an incredible pace. The point is superpowers nowadays are in a very different position than superpowers in the past.
"historically speaking, every great nation falls" is a statement in itself that is historically outdated in my opinion. I'm not saying anything for certain but I really don't think we can rely on that idea for superpowers any longer.
Lol, wow.
Here, I'll type it again, more slowly this time...every...great...nation...eventually...falls . And for a lot of the same reasons, over and over and over again.
If you really, truly do not understand that very simple statement of historical fact, then no productive conversation can be had between us.
Here, I'll type it again, more slowly this time...every...great...nation...eventually...falls . And for a lot of the same reasons, over and over and over again.
If you really, truly do not understand that very simple statement of historical fact, then no productive conversation can be had between us.
I agree.
History repeats itself. The fact that there have been technological changes is simply the nature of change in this particular society. All other nations that "fell" also had massive changes. Some were under their control; some were not.
I agree on both points. I have often thought, for one, that this nation never really developed a culture that is essentially "American" (too young), and the massive immigration, industrialization, other changes have further diuted any "hope" of America (whatever it is) nurturing a viable entity....other than economic power (but no more, shipped the mfg to China) or world policeman (becoming corrupt).
As this applies to the "feminization of the Amer male" issue, I feel that this, again, was an attempt at rather MASSIVE change in the structure of family and the identity of both sexes...on a very personal level, and not only economically. This has seriously weakened the family structure overall in this country and YES I do believe that many immigrants do have more children (of course, look at the stats), which the Caucasian "elite" (pffft) bought into this cr.p on too many levels.....thus, I do feel that this weakening of traditional gender roles is just one more change that will, eventually, weaken this country. It's like the US has post traumatic stress from too much change....the statistics in W (and E) Europe are ALARMING, including Russia, which considers population drain a major problem. There was an article in the NY Times about this, how some of the E Euro countries are virtually emptying of most people 20 and up...period, nothing but Grandma's sitting in the parks with no one to help raise. Seriously. It's somewhat a by product, th ere, of the Soviet bloc, whic has harmed the Western world dramatically and will for centuries to come. These are all, to anyone c oncerned, compelling reasons to reconsider "feminsm" as a reason....not to have children, frankly....the kids are getting too much hype, go ahead and have "relations", birth control okay, hey, get married maybe at 35 and have ONE kid. Not good.
Every great nation fails, but I feel we have greatly accelerated the process. The country is not that OLD.
I know everyone gets tired of hearing this, but we need look no further than Rome towards the end of the Republic-era to see exactly where we are right now. I think our Pax Americana was/will be significantly shorter in absolute terms, but relatively speaking, we're probably on about the right track. Rome rose and fell over a period of about 2000 years, if you go from independence from the Etruscans to the fall of Byzantium...we still have a ways to go, but we won't nearly reach Rome's record. We're starting to see too many of the same problems that Rome didn't really find until really late.
Anyway, basic point...America will fall, eventually. Two coinciding and complementary reasons being the rise of feminism and the decline of masculinity. I know this gets the career-women's panties in a bunch (ha ha, I said that on purpose), but truth is truth, and they cannot argue with the math.
It's kind of ironic that some of the greatest human attributes...drive, ambition, individualism, characteristics that allowed us make our way to the top of the food chain and obtain domination of the world...can also be applied in a way so contrary to our even more basic, biological instincts that it eventually does far more harm than good. The only comforting fact, I guess, is that biology always wins...as I said, a population that refuses or is unable to expand will be overwhelmed and displaced by populations that do not share those compunctions...Western Civilization may fall, but humanity will continue as long as some group of people, somewhere is still willing to have enough babies.
Before WW2, we never lost a war. Since then, we have not won one. A lot of it has to do with the fact that a lot of real European and American men were killed while the pansies stayed home (ain't no sense in going home, Jody's got your girl and gone). This is especially true of Europe, with the "manliest" countries like Germany and Russia getting hit the hardest. After 1945, we lost our stomachs for machismo. We lost our balls, for lack of a better term. And, I guess, it's easy to see why...the death and destruction caused by two great wars within a single generation was more than we could take, I guess. And the people who lived through it (our so-called "greatest generation") were determined to prevent it from happening again. And the way they did it was to try to destroy what they saw as the root causes of those wars...nationalism, rugged individualism, masculinity, etc. Some of it was unintentional...in their desire to save their children from experiencing the same hardships they endured growing up, they actually softened them. Some of it was very intentional...such as the formation of the UN which would serve to strip nations of their inherent sovereignty.
The end result was that the West has become nations of soft, feminine males, afraid to be strong, unable to stand up for themselves, let alone for their nation. It took longer for it to start happening in America, but as Europe goes, America eventually follows. Perhaps it was because of our origins...traits like individualism, independence, hardiness, patriotism, etc, were almost part of our genetic makeup. Alas, the innoculation was not permanent, and the disease that has afflicted Europe since the end of WW2 is rapidly spreading through America as well.
Now, the real problem lies in the fact that while Europe and America are in a masculinity crisis, the rest of the world is not...the islamic world and China do not share our desire to be soft and caring and emotional, and they can use this against us. Already, we do not have the balls to stand up to the threat of islam, to do what is necessary to defeat it. If 9/11 had happened in 1941 instead of 2001, Tehran, Mecca, Riyhad, Baghdad, Damascus would already be glowing in the dark. As it is, I'm amazed we have been able to continue this relatively small scale conflict for as long as we have. And I fear it won't be long before the emasculators force us to give up even the limited effort we have been making.
Sorry...did that answer the question?
Interesting
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I can't imagine looking at him and not thinking manly and hot! Regardless of whether his hair is long and platinum blond or he's wearing a bandana on a pirate ship. Sigh! I wonder what you think of Johnny Depp? Hm, wait, don't answer that cause I might cry.
