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View Poll Results: Are American men becoming feminized?
Yes, men are. 181 44.80%
No, They are not. 70 17.33%
American women are becoming more masculine 53 13.12%
Men and women are just closer to equality 101 25.00%
This is a society trend or fad that will fade 35 8.66%
Other 17 4.21%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 404. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-09-2008, 02:52 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
595 posts, read 2,337,640 times
Reputation: 193

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I understand. My only concern is that if we can swing back away from that, that it does not impact women.
I have no interest in being a stay at home mom (or a mom really), I may enter politics and I work in a fairly traditional male work environment (computers/IT) and I've had to put up with a lot of crap from people who don't want to listen to anything I have to say because I'm not the owner of a penis. Now you can't force anyone to think a certain way, but I do want to make sure that equal opportunity stays out there.
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Old 01-09-2008, 05:12 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,144,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampgrrl View Post
I understand. My only concern is that if we can swing back away from that, that it does not impact women.
I have no interest in being a stay at home mom (or a mom really), I may enter politics and I work in a fairly traditional male work environment (computers/IT) and I've had to put up with a lot of crap from people who don't want to listen to anything I have to say because I'm not the owner of a penis. Now you can't force anyone to think a certain way, but I do want to make sure that equal opportunity stays out there.
The chances of putting the genie back in the bottle of the feminist movement is like trying to stop a volcano from erupting or the sun from rising in the morning. If anything it offers women more of a choice as they can now choose from early on whether to go with a career, homemaker, or both.

I'm just trying to get my mind around whether this change in our society, specifically concerning men is due in part to the feminist movement, just a trend in society, or whatever.
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:24 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
595 posts, read 2,337,640 times
Reputation: 193
It has a lot to do with a. companies marketing towards women from TV shows, movies to just ads. And it comes from men not knowing what their boundaries are or if there are any...women can be career oriented, homemakers, do traditionally masculine things, be feminine. Men aren't socially allowed such leeway, and if the masculine is taught as bad, and the feminine is taught as bad...then you have guys out there not really knowing where they stand I think.
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,235,324 times
Reputation: 15284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampgrrl View Post
I've had to put up with a lot of crap from people who don't want to listen to anything I have to say because I'm not the owner of a penis. .
Not to be disrespectful, but have you ever considered purchasing a penis?
You could keep it in a box on your desk. Or have it bronzed and use it as a paperweight.

After all, there's no need to feel like the only guy at a performance of the Vagina Monologues.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:35 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,144,408 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
It has a lot to do with a. companies marketing towards women from TV shows, movies to just ads. And it comes from men not knowing what their boundaries are or if there are any...women can be career oriented, homemakers, do traditionally masculine things, be feminine. Men aren't socially allowed such leeway, and if the masculine is taught as bad, and the feminine is taught as bad...then you have guys out there not really knowing where they stand I think.

Women may disagree, but men have had to adapt and conform to the established norms and standards of society to a greater degree than have women. Men have had to force themselves to act totally in opposition to their natural tendencies with regard to sex, whereas women may simply behave the way nature intended.

Consider an experiment recently performed in which males aged 18 to 24 were told to ask young women, whom they had never met, for sex. The men were supposed to find a female college student who was alone at the time, strike up a casual conversation about the weather, and then say something like, "I find you very attractive. Would you like to go to my room and have sex?"

In the experiment, 100 percent of the women refused the proposition. And, in fact, the vast majority of them not only refused to have sex, but also seemed insulted or annoyed at having been asked.

The next phase of the experiment reversed the roles. This time, the women were supposed to find a male student and strike up a casual conversation, ending with the same question. And this time, the results were quite different. Seventy percent of the men who were propositioned agreed to have sex. And the reaction of almost all the rest was not disgust. Most were apologetic. Some said things like, "I'm sorry, but I'm afraid my girlfriend might catch us," or, "I don't think I should because I'm kinda going with someone right now."

Why should the women have felt so insulted or annoyed at being asked the same question that didn't bother most men? Women might say the answer is because all men are jerks, or perverts. But that still begs the question, "why is that so?"

The real answer, of course, lies with evolution. In the earliest history of humankind, it was the male's responsibility to make sure the species was promulgated. It was the man's duty to successfully breed with as many females as possible. He was genetically inclined to reproduce with reckless abandon.

Females, on the other hand, were genetically predisposed to seek out the single male that she thought would give her the best and strongest children. And then, her job was to stay at home and raise her family. This behavior was not something she considered consciously; it was simply pre-programmed in her genes. Genetically, she was not interested in having many partners in rapid succession. She simply wanted the best man to get her pregnant, after which time she would refuse sex until she was ready for her next child. In prehistoric times, it was nature's way of making sure the species survived.

The social morés that exist in today's society more nearly reflect the attitude of the early cave women, that is, don't have casual sex with multiple partners, and be true to the one you're with for life. But the men of today still have that genetic predisposition to fertilize as many women as possible in the shortest amount of time.

For that reason, it is the men who have had to adapt their behavior and suppress their tendencies in order to conform to what society says is acceptable behavior. Women have had to change little. These are, of course, general tendencies. There are men who have no repressed sexual desires; as there are some women whose sex drive rivals any man's. That certainly doesn't excuse a man for behaving poorly.

In todays society, men are suppressing more and more of their natural male tendencies in favor of social mor'es that are becoming more inclined to identify with the female gender. What effect this is having on our culture and society is my biggest question and does it have any bearing on the attitudes of todays youth as well?
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,428 posts, read 6,483,354 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Not to be disrespectful, but have you ever considered purchasing a penis?
You could keep it in a box on your desk. Or have it bronzed and use it as a paperweight.

After all, there's no need to feel like the only guy at a performance of the Vagina Monologues.

YouTube - King Missile - Detachable Penis (censored)
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:52 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,706,716 times
Reputation: 199
There is a strong correlation between the decline of the America of our Founding Fathers and Women's Suffarage. The female vote played a large role in getting Roosevelt, the first big time, big-government liberal president, elected. It's been pretty much downhill since then.

And say what you want about the benefits of feminism, but a culture cannot survive when its women are working and not having babies. Greece and Rome suffered from chronic manpower shortages in their waning years, and the only reason the US and Europe do not currently suffer from the same crisis is because of rampant immigration from the 3rd world...from countries which do not share our feminist values and, incidently, are still having plenty of babies. The rise of feminism has led to a population that is not really expanding (immigration notwithstanding)...and populations that do not expand are, sooner or later, squeezed out by populations that are not so "enlightened".

So, debate the relative merits of feminism and the decline of the Western Male, but know that if this trend continues, the Death of the West will come sooner, rather than later. And, I would wager, this wouldn't necessarily be an event that many feminists would mourn...ironic considering that the cultures that will come to dominate in the vacuum that follows are unlikely to tolerate those views.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:12 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,144,408 times
Reputation: 3696
Well I don't know if the feminization of the male is a good thing or a bad thing, only that it seems to be an unnatural thing for the majority of men. I am not sure one could attribute such weight to this one aspect of our changing culture or not, as it is a difficult thing to quantify at best.

Feel free to throw out examples on the positive or negative effects this might have on our society, I am curious and all ears.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:43 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
595 posts, read 2,337,640 times
Reputation: 193
So my career, political aspirations and lack of having babies...is killing America?
Really?

I do think overall we have become a nation of safety seeking weaklings. I see it here on city-data all the time (for a small example) as in, Where is the crime and how do I stay away from it? I want a big house far away from anything that could be ever threatening.
We have places in this nation that seek their pioneers in old urban areas, but the same American family who would go out West and face terrible danger, runs and seeks safety today.
I would give the soccer mom mindset some credit for that mindset (although it is not one I share). We need to be a nation of risk takers and less safety minded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
There is a strong correlation between the decline of the America of our Founding Fathers and Women's Suffarage. The female vote played a large role in getting Roosevelt, the first big time, big-government liberal president, elected. It's been pretty much downhill since then.

And say what you want about the benefits of feminism, but a culture cannot survive when its women are working and not having babies. Greece and Rome suffered from chronic manpower shortages in their waning years, and the only reason the US and Europe do not currently suffer from the same crisis is because of rampant immigration from the 3rd world...from countries which do not share our feminist values and, incidently, are still having plenty of babies. The rise of feminism has led to a population that is not really expanding (immigration notwithstanding)...and populations that do not expand are, sooner or later, squeezed out by populations that are not so "enlightened".

So, debate the relative merits of feminism and the decline of the Western Male, but know that if this trend continues, the Death of the West will come sooner, rather than later. And, I would wager, this wouldn't necessarily be an event that many feminists would mourn...ironic considering that the cultures that will come to dominate in the vacuum that follows are unlikely to tolerate those views.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:56 PM
 
7,138 posts, read 14,594,673 times
Reputation: 2397
There is a difference between fearing a high crime area, and fear of moving to the unknown (pioneering). And the fear of crime is not that I could not protect myself, but that in doing so, I would wind up in prison for killing or harming the criminal trying to protect self or kids. Yes, folks, that is where we are today in a victim last society. I have no fear going to a "wilderness", meeting new challenges, having to work hard to build a home and new life, etc. Quite different. Not sure really how the two "fears" can be fairly compared.
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