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Old 01-08-2008, 02:31 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,245,857 times
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so now that our government is owned by the corperate interests, and the corperate interests write our laws, doesnt it feel like our economy is trying to move towards a slave-based economy?

just think about it. gone is the corperate duty to create jobs and opportunities here and make this country strong. obviously slavery is outlawed worldwide, but what do our corperations do in the name of higher profits? they eliminate jobs here and move thier manufacturing and service to developing countries where they can take advantage of what amounts to slavery through American eyes. and where outsourcing is not practical they hire third-world peasants to do the work, in many cases, for what some would call slave wages. so dont you think that if they could use slaves, they would?
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:13 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,061,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
so now that our government is owned by the corperate interests, and the corperate interests write our laws, doesnt it feel like our economy is trying to move towards a slave-based economy?

just think about it. gone is the corperate duty to create jobs and opportunities here and make this country strong. obviously slavery is outlawed worldwide, but what do our corperations do in the name of higher profits? they eliminate jobs here and move thier manufacturing and service to developing countries where they can take advantage of what amounts to slavery through American eyes. and where outsourcing is not practical they hire third-world peasants to do the work, in many cases, for what some would call slave wages. so dont you think that if they could use slaves, they would?


YES, they would. And the outsourcing of American jobs and the influx of people willing to work as slaves WILL turn the U.S. into a third world country.
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:25 AM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 989,361 times
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You will find that this general mentality is precisely what has motivated the laws that make our US manufacturing climate so unfavorable. Global labor arbitrage was a totally unavoidable consequence of highly efficient trans-continental shipping occurring right about the same time that the 3rd world finally woke the hell up and brought to market the only asset they had going for them- their human capital. We Americans can kick, cry and pull-hair that our labor isn't as competitive as it once was, but really, generations upon generations of compounding employee benefits, hyper-bloated wages and an overall sense of "gimme" has shanghaied us in the fiscal boat we're currently in. Can we blame China and India for wanting to compete with us? Is it "our fault" that we were all raised from infancy with this totally insane, completely delusional concept of entitlement- a concept that relied on economic dynamics that couldn't exist forever?

Furthermore, I don't know what economic school you come from, but there is no such thing as a "corporate duty" to create jobs. This is a bizarre concept, usually held by people who haven't a clue what a corporation actually is.
The only duty a corporation has is to provide profits to its shareholders, either in the form of a dividend or increasing the value of their shares via capital reinvestment. That is 100% of "corporate duty" in a nutshell, right there.

It is up to us as a nation to regulate them (businesses) as we see fit, but whenever we do so with a mind towards eliminating their ability to produce profits (or, viewing the profits they produce as national chattel for us to commandeer by virtue of popular will), we also eliminate the jobs that are concomitant with the businesses existence.

This issue is fascinating, as you find that the very people who are constantly lamenting over the losses of jobs are the exact same ones who favor every single regulation that forces the jobs to go elsewhere. They want to "punish" the big, bad corporations yet they feel entitled to jobs at the same time. This constant demagoguery of the word "corporation" is getting very, very tiring. The people who blather thusly are usually retards. For the past three decades, we've been regulating the everloving sht out of businesses, basically forcing them into survival mode. We've held the gun of odious regulation and obscene to their heads, ensuring that they must take drastic measures to survive as a viable enterprise.


In short, it's the classic losers philosophy.
Entitlement and jealousy wrapped into one big ball of failure.

Last edited by LM1; 01-09-2008 at 02:46 AM..
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Old 01-09-2008, 06:29 AM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,706,092 times
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Outsourcing is the result of government overregulation which has driven up the price of the American worker. When it costs a company $30/hr to pay someone $15/hr, of course they are going to look elsewhere for workers, or they will not be able to continue to make a profit.

I believe the Fair Tax addresses part of this problem...getting rid of payroll taxes and other "hidden" taxes would alleviate the burden on the employer when it comes to hiring American workers.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:17 AM
 
2,776 posts, read 3,951,107 times
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Wow - now each of you will get a rep point as this is on-point and this entire thread has needed to be written for a while now. Thanks for having the guts to write what each of you have and for articulating so well. I agree.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,435,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Outsourcing is the result of government overregulation which has driven up the price of the American worker.

Are you including company-paid health care in that computation? For our health-care funding system to be predominantly employment-based is the root of the problem.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,353 posts, read 6,639,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LM1 View Post
The only duty a corporation has is to provide profits to its shareholders, either in the form of a dividend or increasing the value of their shares via capital reinvestment. That is 100% of "corporate duty" in a nutshell, right there.
Sadly, that's true today, and it has been ever since corporations were given personhood status after the Civil War. But in the early republic, corporations were expected to benefit the public good, first and foremost, and corporate charters could be revoked if lawmakers determined that a corporation had crossed a line -- like influencing elections or public policy. Corporations do that all the time today, and nobody bats an eye.

Corporations have grown too big, powerful, and unaccountable. They're all about greed and control.

Unfortunately, you can say exactly the same thing about government.

Either way you look, the little guy is screwed, up against enormous powers that he has no chance of fighting.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:32 PM
 
Location: On my way to FLA baby !!
1,999 posts, read 1,645,685 times
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If that were the case then we wouldnt have so many corporations going under.

Maybe those who hate corporations should vote to just close down all corporations so none of us will have any jobs.
Slavery..gimme me a break.

I asked my corporation for a job, they didnt ask me and 27 years later it has been a fantastic partnership, they pay me for work performed and not worked forced. I get paid more as I became more valuable to them.

Dont clump all corporations together as they are not even close.

I see many who hate the corporations because they are greedy people themselves who believe in the re distribution of wealth.

Someone posted here a while back that it is wrong for CEO's to make 500k per year and the average worker only makes 40k per year. Well in most cases yes it is ok. The CEO has worked and earned whatever it takes to run a corporation and the avergae worker has little to no skills or has not done the things to obtain more skills to make him/her more valuable.

Dont confuse slavery with corporations, noone is forced to fill out an application.
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:03 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,505,496 times
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Books could be written on this--(and many have been)--but basically, it's the American culture which 'drives' a lot of this. America, from day 1, has probably been among the most (and very possibly is THE most) extreme cultures in the world, when it comes to personal freedom, (call it 'independence' if you will). Even nearby Canada has nowhere NEAR the degree of "ornery', stubborn, contrary 'cussedness' of the American 'cultural ideal'....it's in our culture, it's an important quality of most of our 'heroes' both past and present. "NOBODY", says the 'ideal' American, "is gonna tell ME what to do"....In most of the world, this would be considered 'contrary' or 'anti-social'. Here, it's what we ADMIRE.

This may have worked well when "taming" the frontier, or building the industrial economy, or the transcontinental railroad--it was "full speed ahead, and to H*ll with public opinion". There's no doubt that our 'crusty' qualities DID enable us to amass great wealth and power.

HOWEVER, this same 'contrariness' ALSO allows the 'captains of industry' to take a VERY hands-off view of their "civic duties"--in other words, most of them HAVE none--period. When they DO occasionally "give back" to society, (often after losing a court battle), they get great mileage out of "trumpeting" this in their ads-- "XYZ Corp. wants a CLEAN ENVIRONMENT", etc. But mostly, American industry has to be FORCED to 'give back' ANYTHING. Profit is the name of the game, and the 'public' is left to take care of itself...it's not "our job", 'industry' feels---"we're running a business here, not a 'social benefits' program", is the prevailing attitude.

It should be no surprise, then, that left to itself, and in the absence of any laws FORCING it to do otherwise, American industry is going to go for the "cheap fix"--and if that means going elsewhere for labor, so be it...It's not their "job" to take care of American citizens. It's their job to make PROFITS....the bigger, and the faster, the better. There's very little room there for any 'social conscience', or any guilt about 'doing the right thing'. Little CEO 'sleep is lost' over the impact of layoffs, or downsizing, or offshoring---that's someone ELSE'S problem. It's a 'social' issue, not a business concern.

The American system, like any other, has its GOOD, and its BAD points....and BOTH of them impact on our lives.
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:08 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 989,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
When they DO occasionally "give back" to society,
What the hell do you think they're doing when they pay in taxes in one single year what you would make in 10 lifetimes?
Other than that, I think your post was great, but you cannot expect successful people to be particularly charitable when an enormous portion of what they earn is taken off the top to forcibly support the very ideals that everyone wishes they would do voluntarily.
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