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Do yourself a favor. Educate yourself about what some of those consequences are and then come back and make it sound like an easy choice.
Or are you too phobic to even do that? It's okay, you won't catch anything or wake up gay.
You did look at my example of a better role model didn't you ? Phobic, not in the slightest. I just think role models need more depth than what I'm seeing here. Like I've said before, whatever good that was done by coming out, is negated by the media circus. Again, this role model is so far removed from the average person, transgendered (sp) or not.
It's actually a terrible idea. Many people begin to align with their sex after hormones from puberty hit them.
That doesn't do anything to address the issue I was talking about. It actually just increases the arbitrariness of gender. If gender isn't related to sex, what is it related to?
If it is how one dresses, does that make a male in a dress a woman or a female in jeans a man? If it is related to how emotional someone is, does that make emotional males, women, or vice versa?
This would make perfect sense if we had gender roles that are set in stone. A transgender male would be a male who fits within female gender roles better and a transgender female would be a female who fits within male gender roles better. However, we don't live in such a society. Gender roles are no longer set in stone.
This is what is so bizarre about this issue to me. The same people that push the hardest to get rid of gender roles are the ones that promote trangenderism the most. It is contradictory.
Gender roles are no nger set in stone, but why are you fighting to hard to have gender set in stone? Why is it so hard for you to accept that any given person requests to be identified as something, or as nothing in particular, or whatever. Why does it bother you so much? What difference does it make to me if random coworker identifies as androgynous pansexual or agender pansexual or female asexual? Just tell me the pronoun to use and be understanding if I mess it up.
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Those people are neither male nor female, they are intersex and that is an entirely different issue.
Regarding people with extra sex chromosomes, I see that you've heard the term intersex and decided to apply it here. It doesn't apply. Intersex is a condition where sex is indeterminate. People with Kleinfelter's, Turner's or other extra sex c'some conditions are very much a gender. In fact, the incidence of people with XYY is very much higher in prisons because they're extra manly.
There are lots of other celebrities who feel the way he does he's just one of the few that will come out and say it. I said when the pictures came out you will have managers and publicists all across America praying that the star they work with doesn't tweet something stupid
I said Bruce doesn't have them. Not women Being a woman, and having had children, I am fully aware of where my mammary glands are and what they are for.
Back to Bruce, those little puppies are breast implants.....
No, you said men had magical pecs which responded to female hormones. Since we know that both men and women respond to certain hormones with breast growth and lactation, you're saying that happens from a muscle.
It's actually testosterone which causes muscle growth, not oestrogen and progesterone. Taking female hormones will reduce her muscle mass and increase her body fat percentage. They will also stimulate her breast tissue to grow, and if she also took prolactin and had a convenient newborn she could breastfeed it.
Again, I 100% support a person making a personal decision to live their lives however they wish. Actually, I don't care.
People (male or female) are free to wear any type of clothes, make up, hair, surgery, etc that they want.
My issue is that if asked do I believe Caitlyn (or any other trans person) is authentically the other gender, then, my personal belief is no, they are not. I don't believe anyone can authentically change gender.
They are as authentically the other gender as their health, physical makeup, medical science and psychological factors permits. As far as they're concerned, they aren't changing gender, they're living the gender they are. There are many variances in the gender spectrum. There are are very feminine men and super masculine women. There's no point trying to shove everyone into a narrow box. If someone is at the fartherest end where they have always identified as the opposite gender completely, then your authenticity scale is moot.
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Originally Posted by charlygal
See, that's my choice. To have my own beliefs about these matters. However, popular opinion and expectation is that I'm just supposed to go along with it.
You mean like transgendered people are just supposed to go along with society's idea of who they really are, and not their own?
And you are free to have your own beliefs, obviously. But beliefs based on what? Are you an expert in the physiological, neurological and hormonal make up of transgenders? To what end do you choose to believe Jenner or any other trans person is not who they say they are? If someone presents themselves to you fully transitioned, are you going to mutter to yourself "you're not really a woman, you're not really a woman, you're not really a woman" as you chat about the merits of drip vs espresso? What is the point in that?
And I ask that to everyone here who makes such a statement. What is your point?
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Originally Posted by charlygal
As to the question of race, you would be surprised at how many people believe they were born in the wrong race. I know many Black people who listen to more rock music than I do, they speak proper English, get good grades in school, live in the suburbs, and like certain physical features. I know white kids who have loved hip hop and urban culture from the day they were born. They can quote a 20 year old rap lyric easier than anyone. They wear the clothes, speak slang, etc. I've heard them say "I should have been born Black."
You have confused environmental and societal constructs with biology.
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Originally Posted by charlygal
Of course, you can counter that music, using proper grammar, and living in certain locations doesn't make someone a certain race.
Not only can I counter that, it's imperative. People are not born with a predisposition to like certain culture's music. If someone is 1/4th African decent, 1/4 Scandinavian, 1/4 South Asian and 1/4 Japanese, what music do they like? I'm not even going to touch the part about proper grammar. I'd tell you that if someone appeared from 1776 and had a chat with you, you'd think their grammar was less than "proper" too. Social not biological.
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Originally Posted by charlygal
Okay, then how does hair, make up and clothes make someone else a different gender?
Outward appearance is not the whole story. If you've denied your true self for many years, of course it's going to be exciting and satisfying to finally resemble that which has been presented to you as feminine characteristics your whole life. But it's deeper than that. Many male to female transgenders will tell you how they abhor their facial hair for example, often having that lasered off before anything else. They actually hate their male characteristics. Hormones will give the body certain gender characteristics. Surgery is a lot more serious a step than putting on a dress.
I can guarantee you that at some point in your life you'll see a transgendered person and not realize it, and fully accept them as they present to you. In that case, they are 100% what they are in that moment and your denial of their reality means nothing, even to you.
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Originally Posted by charlygal
If you say a person has felt they were a certain gender all their lives, then yes, there have been many people who have felt like they were born into the incorrect racial body. That's real. It really is. Are we looking at a future where there is racial identity reassignment? Why not?
More like born into the wrong zipcode.
But, if you have any proof of this, and of people wanting racial identity reassignment, I'd be interested in checking that out.
Again, I 100% support a person making a personal decision to live their lives however they wish. Actually, I don't care.
People (male or female) are free to wear any type of clothes, make up, hair, surgery, etc that they want.
My issue is that if asked do I believe Caitlyn (or any other trans person) is authentically the other gender, then, my personal belief is no, they are not. I don't believe anyone can authentically change gender.
See, that's my choice. To have my own beliefs about these matters. However, popular opinion and expectation is that I'm just supposed to go along with it.
As to the question of race, you would be surprised at how many people believe they were born in the wrong race. I know many Black people who listen to more rock music than I do, they speak proper English, get good grades in school, live in the suburbs, and like certain physical features. I know white kids who have loved hip hop and urban culture from the day they were born. They can quote a 20 year old rap lyric easier than anyone. They wear the clothes, speak slang, etc. I've heard them say "I should have been born Black."
Of course, you can counter that music, using proper grammar, and living in certain locations doesn't make someone a certain race. Okay, then how does hair, make up and clothes make someone else a different gender?
If you say a person has felt they were a certain gender all their lives, then yes, there have been many people who have felt like they were born into the incorrect racial body. That's real. It really is. Are we looking at a future where there is racial identity reassignment? Why not?
Speaking proper English and getting good grades are not white (or non-black) characteristics. Good grief!
Overlooking the ridiculousness of those stereotypes, I can agree with this statement:
"My issue is that if asked do I believe Caitlyn (or any other trans person) is authentically the other gender, then, my personal belief is no, they are not. I don't believe anyone can authentically change gender."
Oh, gawd. No she's not. If she hadn't been Bruce Jenner beforehand, and famous as such, she wouldn't be on the cover of anything, much less Vanity Fair. Not even Annie Leibovitz could make her look like anything other than a former male Olympian in drag.
Honestly, I'm all for people doing what makes them happy, but let's not bend over backwards to the PC police. She looks like a guy. No one would ever mistake her for genetically female.
After a few drinks in a dark club, I beg to differ.
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Originally Posted by The Ryu
but can he twerk though????
Best post in this thread.
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Originally Posted by charlygal
As to the question of race, you would be surprised at how many people believe they were born in the wrong race. I know many Black people who listen to more rock music than I do, they speak proper English, get good grades in school, live in the suburbs, and like certain physical features. I know white kids who have loved hip hop and urban culture from the day they were born. They can quote a 20 year old rap lyric easier than anyone. They wear the clothes, speak slang, etc. I've heard them say "I should have been born Black."
Well, golly-gee willikers, I should've been born white, too, because I speak "proper" English!
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Being a woman, and having had children, I am fully aware of where my mammary glands are and what they are for. 
"Ma'am is acceptable in a crunch, but I prefer Captain." 
