Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Their ideals were not coming from the Bible? Really? Your understanding of the Founders, and of our history is sorely lacking.
You just quoted form Mathew saying how Christians have a duty to spread the gospel, yet the first amendment prohibits a state religion and allows for all religions to exist in the county.
But yeah, you got me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeymags
I suppose every group and race can want to live in communities predominately similar to themselves....except for whites. That is racist.
Show me one Muslim country that is not a complete and utter shthole, and I'll role out the welcoming mat.
How many Christian nations are perfect? Plenty of countries south of the US are Christian, and they're filled with poverty and human rights issues.
Notice how the successful 'Christian' nations have secular values over religious ones.
Islam is not the problem. Religion is. It does not matter what religion you mix into government, it will never be good EVER.
The first religion that should stop bring unyielding and hellbent is Christianity. We are not a Christian society, no matter how much you might want to dream for that.
Did you ever think that that might be our biggest problem? We have sidelined God?
If we have left our Christian roots behind, and abandoned our faith, we are open to anything, and who is ready to walk right in to fill the gap? You betcha ... it's Islam.
Hmmm I wonder if that's why they wrote the First Amendment so-called "establishment clause," to protect the Church from the government? Clearly, they had an intent to protect religion. Why if they were intent on creating a secular government, would they do this? Why did they begin sessions of Congress with prayer (Christian prayer, mind you)? Why did they seek the guidance of God in all they did, and they did not hide this fact?
You have some explaining to do.
First of all, secularism does not mean what you think it means. Secularism means the separation of religion from other affairs (typically government). Religion can still exist in a secular state.
You should also know that while it is true, the church was meant to be protected from the state, the inverse is also true. The state was to be protected from the church. The founders looked to Europe for that one: the church was heavily influential in the governments of Europe and establishing monarchy. The founders saws this as a negative and wanted to keep the state and the church separate.
Congress opens with an option, non-denominational prayer. Anyone of any faith can pray in whatever way they choose, or simply not be a part of the prayer.
'They' seek the guidance of many people. Those that chose to look to God did so for religious reasons. But again, it's not required. And not even true. Decisions were made through the political process. When a bill is past, they don't look to the sky and ask 'is this good?'
Did you ever think that that might be our biggest problem? We have sidelined God?
If we have left our Christian roots behind, and abandoned our faith, we are open to anything, and who is ready to walk right in to fill the gap? You betcha ... it's Islam.
We haven't side lined God. Even though who don't strongly identify with Christianity still believe God (or god, as the case may sometimes be). People are still spiritual, but are more opening to questioning the tenets of organized religion.
You just quoted form Mathew saying how Christians have a duty to spread the gospel, yet the first amendment prohibits a state religion and allows for all religions to exist in the county.
But yeah, you got me!
How many Christian nations are perfect? Plenty of countries south of the US are Christian, and they're filled with poverty and human rights issues.
Notice how the successful 'Christian' nations have secular values over religious ones.
Islam is not the problem. Religion is. It does not matter what religion you mix into government, it will never be good EVER.
I think the word IS "secular" here. 50 years ago many parts of the Middle East were doing well like Iran and some other countries; they were def secular. 2015 they ain't, again Iran comes to mind.
It seems to countries controlled by Catholics had all sorts of problems like LatAm as you said along with Ireland. Probably because the "Church" had no real competition from other "Christian" religions till about 2000. Now the Catholic Church HAS to step up and take care of business or, it'll die. Hell, word is the Catholics and the Church of England are having some talk about joining back together. I've been in an Episcopalian church and it looked almost like a Catholic 1.
Islam: even the Sufi side of it scares the hell out of the crazy Islamist pig kind. Sad because word is the Sufis have a very decent rep.
Well, we are too. No amount of denial will change that. It is the root of AMERICAN style freedom. As this nation adopts secular atheism, we are seeing the result.
You guys are really sensitive about that TRUTH, aren't you!
Actually, AMERICAN style freedoms include the freedom to worship and conduct your daily life as you wish - not the freedom to worship and conduct your daily life as Christians wish.
What an angry, divisive, hateful woman. I feel bad for people like her. She knows not what she does. I hope she finds love and acceptance of those that are not like her some day. Her "soul" will never be at peace until she does. Poor thing.
Because religion should NEVER EVER mix with politics, no matter the religion. They broke away from England and the rest of Europe because the church (Christians, in case you need a reminder) were causing problems for the average person.
No, they broke away from England (and elsewhere) to practice Christianity as they wished. The Church of England was much like the Catholic Church. The Puritans were called "puritans" because they were trying to purify (make more biblical) the Church of England. Remember, there had already been a Reformation.
The vast majority of colonists were Calvinist Christians. Others were Quakers. But Calvinism was the dominant form of Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty
We are not a Christian nation. We happen to have a Christian majority, but our government is not meant to reflect any religious values.
This is a false teaching. Where do you find this in any writings of any of the founders? There is absolutely no evidence of such an intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty
It still does because Christians pushed for it! But it's not supposed to. Our country does not have Christian values. The ones it does have are not Christian specific. Most religions and groups share those values, like nor murdering or stealing.
Plenty of people want their beliefs to influence our government and way of life. Some of them are Christian, and by refusing to acknowledge that, you are part of the problem. This is the same logic used when Muslims don't speak out against terrorism.
No, our problems have arisen because of our abandonment of our religious heritage. And I am not "part of the problem (thank you very much).
No, they broke away from England (and elsewhere) to practice Christianity as they wished. The Church of England was much like the Catholic Church. The Puritans were called "puritans" because they were trying to purify (make more biblical) the Church of England. Remember, there had already been a Reformation.
The vast majority of colonists were Calvinist Christians. Others were Quakers. But Calvinism was the dominant form of Christianity.
The protestant reformation bega in the 1400s and gave birth to modern Western thinking (liberalism). It has shaped our world. It started with the most fundamental aspect of liberalism: questioning authority. The first to be questioned was the church (organized religion).
This value still exists today. You say the 1st amendment is there to protect the church. I say it's their to protect the state (and more specifically, the people who may not want to follow the beliefs of others). They're both true to an extent. The bottom line, church and state are intentionally separated because combining them creates problems. Look at Iran. In 1950, it was doing just fine. Muslim activists took the government and instilled their harsh religious values and now we have the Iran we know and love today. The thing is, Islam isn't the only religion that has done this. Just ask Ireland.
Notice that all the European countries that stopped taking orders from the church suddenly started to improve.
Religion and politics should be two separate entities if we want to maintain stability and balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamencoFreak
This is a false teaching. Where do you find this in any writings of any of the founders? There is absolutely no evidence of such an intent.
The bill of rights confirms that I am correct. Freedom of religion means what it sounds like. This does not exclude non-Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamencoFreak
No, our problems have arisen because of our abandonment of our religious heritage. And I am not "part of the problem (thank you very much).
If you say so. You'll get similar responses from the moderate Muslims though, so I'm skeptical.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
