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Old 02-04-2015, 09:18 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
OK, so you say anti-discrimination laws trump the 1st amendment. Gotcha. I disagree. Forcing people to participate in gay weddings violates the 1st amendment, and since you obviously do not know, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. It gives us the right to refuse to participate for religious reasons. Feel free to disagree.
How does baking a cake make a baker participate in a wedding of any kind? All the baker does is bake and decorate the cake, not bless it or use holy items to bake the cake. How does the bakers religion come in to play in baking any cake. Does he/she pray before baking every cake or just once a day for all the cakes baked that day? I do not get how religion comes in to play in operating any business that is not a church or church run. Why should anyone of any religion get the right to discriminate against it customers using their religion? Would you be okay if say a Jewish run bakery refused to bake a wedding cake for a Christian couple, but they would bake one for any other couple, just not Christians? Is that really okay with you, for the 1st is not about Christianity, it is about all religious freedom of and from religion. Why should just Christians be allowed to discriminate? What makes them special?

 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:20 PM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
Answer this Finn, what law does the 1st trump? I always notice that it is the "Christians" that want to discriminate. Why do you guys want to discriminate? Does it somehow make you feel superior, better then everyone else?
WHy do you demand that gay rights trump everyone else?
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:23 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
You just made it clear that protected classes get special protections, and if you are not a part of the protected class you get hung out to dry. Gays as a protected class do not represent all people, they just represent a small portion of the public.

So I have to bake a cake that extolls the gay lifestyle, and I can't refuse even if i disagree with it, because being gay is a protected class. But if someone wants me to bake a cake extolling the white race, I can refuse to bake it because I disagree with it, because being a racially motivated person is not a protected class.
No, you cannot refuse to bake a cake for a white person and how does baking a cake for a gay person extoll the "gay lifestyle" ? And what in hades is a gay lifestyle? Is just being gay a gay lifestyle? Do you have any idea what you parrot?
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:24 PM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,872,728 times
Reputation: 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
In other words, you want gays to just shut up and go elsewhere. What rights are people not having respected? Discriminating is not a right and why is it that gays are not moral for just being gay, yet many christians divorce, gamble, cheat, lie and steal and claim to be moral? Who made you the morality cop? How does ones religious beliefs come in to play in operating a business wether it be a bakery or a barber? It is the baker using his/her religous beliefs to condemn and judge gays and deny them the same service that would be provided for a twice married straight couple. The bakery is not a church, it is not protected under religious freedoms. And what the heck is a US Constructional Religious right? Something to do with lumber or nails?
Well the Gay Community goes out of their way to destroy peoples business and lives to prove a point. They want elementary kids to be raised that different families are good. Some employers make mandatory to support Gay people in the work place. Like attend gay marries and events.

This is done out of fear of some dime store lawyer suing a company that is not perceived in being fair.

Everyone has done sinful things, how you deal with it is between you and God.

No is Morality cop here, I refuse to let Left wing whacks run the roost here. There is always two sides to every important issue. Its the politically correct crowd trying to undermine the Bible ,People of Faith, because it just does not fit someone's sinful life.

People pick and choose with whom and what kind of business they wish to engage. Life is not about money, its how you live life in the Glory. Our founding Fathers left Kings and the old royal Culture to come to America to start Fresh.

The sad Fact is the damage is done and a potentially Great Baker is out of business. Because they stood for their beliefs. We can go back and forth here on non points, but its time we get away from protected groups and respect other citizens US Const. Rights. Not just a few!

Last edited by GHOSTRIDER AZ; 02-04-2015 at 09:34 PM..
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:35 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Ok what if a OMG Baptist, bible toting, go church Wed and twice on Sunday. couple came in a Gay Bakery.

The openly Gay Bakery Owner says I do not believe in God nor marriage and refused the Baptist Couple.
Id not feel comfortable doing business in a Man / woman Marriage,.Would you sue the Bakery the same that the Gay couple sue the Christian Based Business?

Your other point, is Marriage is one the important Sacraments of the Bible. To support a Sin is direct disobedience to God. The same principles people practice everyday. So therefor it against the Christian Beliefs and is written in many parts of the Bible. To Begin with is Genesis Chapter 2 verse 21.

So it does infringe on the rights of a Christian Based Business. Look at the issue of Hobby Lobby and the issue of Abortion? (Roe vs. Wade)

Same continued example of 1st Amendment Rights. Why are we writing laws to protect a class of people. What happen to your 14th Amendment on "Equal Protection"???? Doesn't it apply to Christian Business owners??

After all "Equal Protection"
Oh my god, you just do not get it. Get your head out of your bible or the sand, where ever it is. A gay baker is under the same laws, they cannot refuse to bake a cake for any one either and what makes you think that because one is gay they do not believe in god, it is not like being gay makes one automatically atheist

The business, i.e. the bakery, was not a Christian based business or a church, they have to follow the same laws that all the other businesses on the block and around the corner must follow, they do not get a SPECIAL BREAK because the owner is Christian.

To all of you good Christians out there, I know that not all of you are so filled with hate or judgement, but some of them are so obsessed with wanting to hate, to endorse it and seem to enjoy it, they give a bad taste to religion. I was an atheist before I knew that I was gay, they do not go hand in hand. There are many gay Christians, Jews and so on as well as atheist. There is no default belief for gays.
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,083,065 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Well the Gay Community goes out of their way to destroy peoples business and lives to prove a point. They want elementary kids to be raised that different families are good. Some employers make mandatory to support Gay people in the work place. Like attend gay marries and events.

This is done out of fear of some dime store lawyer suing a company that is not perceived in being fair.

Everyone has done sinful things, how you deal with it is between you and God.

No is Morality cop here, I refuse to let Left wing whacks run the roost here. There is always two sides to every important issue. Its the politically correct crow trying to undermine the Bible , because it just does not fit someone's sinful life.

People pick and choose with whom and what kind of business they wish to engage. Life is not about money, its how you live life in the Glory. Our founding Fathers left Kings and the old royal Culture to come to America to start Fresh.
But isn't a bakery refusing to sell to a gay customer doing so... just to prove a point..

I get that their baseline reasoning comes from religion. I understand that. But it's not the full story. They're against gay marriage. That's fine, that's their right. But refusing to sell the cake does what? Literally nothing. Weddings are not officiated with baked goods. The marriage will continue with or without the cake. So by not selling said cake, they do so not because it upholds some deep religious tradition, but because it's making a relatively weak political statement.

I'm not saying I think business should be required to do anything. If I were gay, I'd just take my business elsewhere. Hell, I'd do that now. I'm much less likely to support a bakery that acts in the least Christ-like way possible, while simultaneously using Christ to back their actions. Stupid people are less deserving of my patronage; they'll end up spending the money on something stupid, like giving most of it to a church and praying for earthquake victims rather than just giving the money to earthquake victims like a normal person.
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:39 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
Then I gotcha Ya.
What you really saying it is OK to discriminate against someone 1st amend rights in include equal protection and every thing you have just says is you willing to protect a gay couple, as a protected class, over the rights of Christen Business Owners and Believers alike.

How many more Sacraments do I need to provide my point. 1 Corinthians 15:33, Mathew 5:22, Mark 12:25, Luke 14:20

Gotcha!
YOUR SACRAMENTS BELONG IN THE RELIGION FORUM go there with your bible quotes
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:44 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
The Bakery retrospectively should sold a generic wedding Cake and said there you and your bill is 5K pay the Girl many at the register.

This couple should of never visited the bakery with knowing they may not receive the service they would like and move on to a Gay Bakery.

This whole thing has been a stunt by the Gay Community.
NO, you are making stuff up that did not happen. They did not target the baker, they did business with the baker in the past, there was no sign out front saying that it was a christian establishment that refuses to bake wedding cakes for gays. It was when the couple requested a wedding cake for their ceremony that the baker refused to bake the cake, a cake she would have baked for a divorced straight couple, a mixed race straight couple or possibly even an atheist straight couple, just no wedding cakes for gay couples. This is the baker using her religion to judge, condemn and discriminate.
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:50 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
But is the Oregon Law Discriminating against Christian Business? Is the Law proving more protection over a group of people , than regular law abiding citizens.

Where is the Civil rights people when it comes to people of belief.
Ghostrider, what rights are being denied to people of belief? Is discriminating against those one does not agree with a right? It is not one I ever heard of and I know that discrimination is not part of the 1st.
 
Old 02-04-2015, 09:52 PM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,872,728 times
Reputation: 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
Oh my god, you just do not get it. Get your head out of your bible or the sand, where ever it is. A gay baker is under the same laws, they cannot refuse to bake a cake for any one either and what makes you think that because one is gay they do not believe in god, it is not like being gay makes one automatically atheist

The business, i.e. the bakery, was not a Christian based business or a church, they have to follow the same laws that all the other businesses on the block and around the corner must follow, they do not get a SPECIAL BREAK because the owner is Christian.

To all of you good Christians out there, I know that not all of you are so filled with hate or judgement, but some of them are so obsessed with wanting to hate, to endorse it and seem to enjoy it, they give a bad taste to religion. I was an atheist before I knew that I was gay, they do not go hand in hand. There are many gay Christians, Jews and so on as well as atheist. There is no default belief for gays.
Christians and answer to a higher cause. have standards, do you? Its not about hate its standing your ground. Christians runs their business with Christian ideals in play everyday. Its not about "special deals you get because you Christian or a believer" Matter of fact its a challenge, some days to balance this world values with the kingdom of God.
People choose who they want to do business with every day.
You may understand this maybe.
Your standing in Line at a fashionable Dance club in NYC. The bouncer looks at some in shorts and bad shirt. Don't you think you will be the last one if at all, allowed in the club?

People make business decisions everyday. If you do not feel comfortable with a piece a business , one should walk away and let that client choose anther Dance Club.


So are you going sue that Club, because you were not dress in a recognized label?
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