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So the Berlin airlift was a "needless war"? Korea was a "needless war"? And China has not been frustrated in its efforts to, among other things, devour Taiwan?
Ignorance of history is never persuasive. Nor is name-calling.
It seems that history is altering some events in ways which create inaccuracy. I agree that our military presence overseas, and the threat of it, has had significant positive global impact.
It seems that history is altering some events in ways which create inaccuracy. I agree that our military presence overseas, and the threat of it, has had significant positive global impact.
And it will continue to do so.
You are too generous. It isn't that "history is altering some events". I think that either selective amnesia or willful ignorance is the more likely explanation.
You are too generous. It isn't that "history is altering some events". I think that either selective amnesia or willful ignorance is the more likely explanation.
This to be sure is one of America's greatest failings. Our short term memory.
Combine the short term memory with short term planing or lack of long term forthought and we end up with the majority of problems we have today. That being creating enimies through our arrogance. We know what you really want and need more than you do so we will just force it on you. Sort of like how we would treat a 5 year old who won't take his medicine.
We suffer from opposites actually. Under the dems we bow low to the UN and Europe. What ever they want they get, regardless of cost.
Under the new breed of Republicans we completely disregard world opinion and step all over everyones toes, regardless of cost.
I truly feel that Reagan was the last prez who was able to walk the tight rope at all.
Israel is another topic but our alliance with them costs us as much as all other mistakes combined. Our issues in the Middle east are not due to our religion or system of gov. Its about our blatently biased and hypocritical reactions to Israels chronic misdeeds. I am not saying that we should abandon Israel. I am saying that we should be equally critical of all the players. Case in point. If syria or Iran did even half the nastey tricks that Israel has pulled in the last 3 years we would have been call for UN sanctions if not military action. What Israel did to lebenon was in fact comparable to what Saddam did to kuwait.
I never knew that the Berlin 'airlift' qualified as a 'war'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf
So the Berlin airlift was a "needless war"? Korea was a "needless war"? And China has not been frustrated in its efforts to, among other things, devour Taiwan?
Ignorance of history is never persuasive. Nor is name-calling.
Gee, I never knew that the Berlin 'airlift' qualified as a 'war'. One could make the arguement that the Korean war was totally unneccessary, just as the Vietnam and Iraq wars were. The US has been more of a supporter of China than Taiwwan. You are ignorant of history, and you started with the name-calling.
This to be sure is one of America's greatest failings. Our short term memory.
Combine the short term memory with short term planing or lack of long term forthought and we end up with the majority of problems we have today. That being creating enimies through our arrogance. We know what you really want and need more than you do so we will just force it on you. Sort of like how we would treat a 5 year old who won't take his medicine.
We suffer from opposites actually. Under the dems we bow low to the UN and Europe. What ever they want they get, regardless of cost.
Under the new breed of Republicans we completely disregard world opinion and step all over everyones toes, regardless of cost.
I truly feel that Reagan was the last prez who was able to walk the tight rope at all.
Israel is another topic but our alliance with them costs us as much as all other mistakes combined. Our issues in the Middle east are not due to our religion or system of gov. Its about our blatently biased and hypocritical reactions to Israels chronic misdeeds. I am not saying that we should abandon Israel. I am saying that we should be equally critical of all the players. Case in point. If syria or Iran did even half the nastey tricks that Israel has pulled in the last 3 years we would have been call for UN sanctions if not military action. What Israel did to lebenon was in fact comparable to what Saddam did to kuwait.
The concept that we're creating enemies through our arrogance is a simplification that denies thousands of years of empirical data. Man is a warlike species that craves power and wealth. Regardless of our actions there is NO ONE PATH that would keep everyone happy. People use our actions against us not because we made the actions but because they are seeking to further their own political and economic agenda's. The US Navy protects the world economy. Without our Navy or a suitable replacement the sea lanes of the world would be fraught with danger for all manner of shipping. This would translate to higher prices (2-3 times higher most likely) on virtually everything you buy. Fuel would be much more expensive if tankers were regularly hijacked/pirated and make no mistake there are still pirates out there now even with the presence of our Navy in virtually every corner of the world. People who advocate non intervention are deluding themselves that everyone will behave if left alone. That's not how the world works. Someone on here posted that NATO killed more kosovar's than the Serb's. This is pretty revisionist history and I'm certain that person has never been to Serbia-Croatia.
I've been through the straights of Hormuz multiple times on an Aegis cruiser. Iranian gun boats regularly harassed our ships and battle groups. I've watched them maneuver in the dark 100yds away through NVG's while we aimed locked and loaded .50 caliber machine guns at them and waited to see if they would force an encounter. It's not as simple as our superior might will instantly destroy them. America (contrary to popular belief) exercises amazing discretion and restraint in these and thousands of other situations where our servicemen and women are potentially in danger.
Some tidbits to consider before we blast away at America's behavior. Do you think countries played cat and mouse with roman legions? Did neutral/rival city states move a detachment of archers to within 100yds of Alexander's phalanxes? This is the first and only time in the history of mankind that the most powerful nation on earth wasn't actively taking the land of other nations.
The comments about Israel are highly uneducated. I'm not affiliated with Israel in any manner at all, but the analogy that what they did to Lebanon was akin to Iraq-Kuwait is amazingly ridiculous. Was anyone in Kuwait firing rockets into Iraq? Did Israel plunder Lebanon in any manner? Was anyone in Kuwait advocating putting all Iraqi's to death? Israel is definitely proactive in it's own defense but it's surrounded by forces that out number it 10-1 and all openly advocate their destruction. If all your neighbors we're standing in the yard yelling about killing your family every day and you saw some of them building a wheeled tower with a wrecking ball in the driveway across the street for 3 days would you not consider burning the tower down one night? Israel is prospering, the people there just want to exist peacefully. I've met many of them and not a single one was advocating war, they don't talk about invading Lebanon, Syria or Egypt and completely eradicating their populations, if no one was threatening them there would be peace. Do you think the reverse is true? Is there any lack of evidence that the reverse ideology is taught in Islamic school's in virtually every country in the middle east?
Is it fair to say that a significant portion of the Islamic world would love to see christian nations put to the sword? Do you think if the balance of power was reversed Iran would hesitate to squish us like a bug?
America isn't perfect because it's run by men and men are corrupt beings with many faults but this isn't a simple situation because EVERYONE has an agenda. EVERYONE is attempting to further their own interests. Burying your head in the sand is the kind of logic that leads to Hitler's rise and 911 incidents. The world isn't easy nor particularly friendly and freedom simply isn't free.
Gee, I never knew that the Berlin 'airlift' qualified as a 'war'. One could make the arguement that the Korean war was totally unneccessary, just as the Vietnam and Iraq wars were. The US has been more of a supporter of China than Taiwwan. You are ignorant of history, and you started with the name-calling.
Without the US and our Navy Taiwan would simply not exist as a free nation. The Korean war was about the free world confronting the expansion of communism. It was the stated doctrine of communism to spread across the entire world. If you think living under communism is better than what we have perhaps you should emmigrate to China or Cuba.
Without the US and our Navy Taiwan would simply not exist as a free nation. The Korean war was about the free world confronting the expansion of communism. It was the stated doctrine of communism to spread across the entire world. If you think living under communism is better than what we have perhaps you should emmigrate to China or Cuba.
No need to play the silly "america love it or leave it" game.
Taiwan is not a free nation, as I recall. I was there not 3 months ago and got a Chinese stamp in my passport.
So, tell me about your close encounters in the Gulf of Tonkin. As a result of this lie, over 50,000 American military members died, not to mention countless Vietnamese.
No evrything is a conspiracy and a fake. You actuallyl are not seeing this and you just think that I exist; when I don't.It is a fact that people on the internet often have more than one existence and that the number of peole posting here is less than a many small towns;so doesn't reflect much of anyhting.
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I never knew that the Berlin 'airlift' qualified as a 'war'
