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Old 01-09-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 4,221,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
But why do you have to make it into a Democrat/Republican issue at all??

Can't people accept this happens on both sides? Is that too hard to admit??
Bily

Here is where I am going to draw some fire.

Many years ago, I heard an interview with Kissinger where he said "What drives me crazy is that the Democrats are always accusing the Republicans of doing exactly what they are doing."
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,778,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Oh don't get me wrong. I don't take the threat lightly. But if these boats were in open water and radioed threats that they were going to destroy our ships, that is an act of aggression. We should have responded with warnings of their decimation coming if they didn't retreat. And then we could have either fired a few hello shots in their path, or we could have taken them out if they moved too close. Right now, if the incident is accurate as stated by Bush, then war with the country of Iran is not the answer. Simply letting them know that we will respond with force to any more serious threats in the area.

And after the USS Cole, I would hope NO warship would ever be caught offguard again and would be constantly monitoring every square inch of water around them with authorized officers readily available to make decisions on destroying a threat.


That whole thing with the Cole was very strange. I am ex Navy and was over there for Desert Storm. (I did gun boats too). I can tell you we had watchstanders on duty and were alert ready to man guns any time we were in any foreign port...ESPECIALLY Middle Eastern Ports. Not saying it is a conspiracy, but it does seem pretty negligent on the part of the Cole Crew.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,778,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Builder View Post
Bily

Here is where I am going to draw some fire.

Many years ago, I heard an interview with Kissinger where he said "What drives me crazy is that the Democrats are always accusing the Republicans of doing exactly what they are doing."
No fire from me. I get there are partisans (like Glitch ) that believe somehow that everyone throughout history that has belonged to one particular party is squeaky Clean, just because of their affiliation. That seems a bit naive thinking to me. I have voted both sides, they are all Politicians, love Glory and Power, all capable of the same deception and lies. Nobody gets a free pass.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 4,221,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
No fire from me. I get there are partisans (like Glitch ) that believe somehow that everyone throughout history that has belonged to one particular party is squeaky Clean, just because of their affiliation. That seems a bit naive thinking to me. I have voted both sides, they are all Politicians, love Glory and Power, all capable of the same deception and lies. Nobody gets a free pass.
Bily

To be fair though. Isn't someone here dealing it out on the lefty hate Bush side too?
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,778,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob The Builder View Post
Bily

To be fair though. Isn't someone here dealing it out on the lefty hate Bush side too?
I do hate Bush. I voted for him the first time because Al Gore did not do much for me. Definitely voted against him the second time after I saw the damage he was capable of, even though Kerry didn't do much for me either.

Hatred of Bush does not equal "lefty hate side"...75% of the country feels the same way, after all...
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 4,221,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
I do hate Bush. I voted for him the first time because Al Gore did not do much for me. Definitely voted against him the second time after I saw the damage he was capable of, even though Kerry didn't do much for me either.

Hatred of Bush does not equal "lefty hate side"...75% of the country feels the same way, after all...
Bily

I do not think 75% of the country "hates" Bush. That is a lot of hate. I'm pretty sure that you don't hate Bush. But if it were true, don't you think articles like the one in your OP have skewed the facts against him? Seems to me that this article, its author, editor etc.. was dishonest and attempted to fool the public. Come on. You bit in didn't you?
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,689,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
That whole thing with the Cole was very strange. I am ex Navy and was over there for Desert Storm. (I did gun boats too). I can tell you we had watchstanders on duty and were alert ready to man guns any time we were in any foreign port...ESPECIALLY Middle Eastern Ports. Not saying it is a conspiracy, but it does seem pretty negligent on the part of the Cole Crew.
I wonder what happened to the Skipper of the Cole? I read somewhere the Skipper of the Stark got hung out to dry because he had tracking computers in standby due to long history of systems breakdown caused by heat when in active search mode. That kind of stuff kills an officers carreer!!!!!
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Florida (SW)
47,935 posts, read 21,914,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elston View Post
I do believe that this is an orchestrated fake incident. I don't believe it has any more
validity than the photo's of Sadaam's mobile chemical laboratories or the nuclear fission tubes. The Bush administration has used the report of WMD; false photo's; phony news conferences, paid "journalists" to write favorable stories; given press credentials to a gay prostitute so he could attend press conferences and ask softball questions; and has leaked the name of a CIA agent. Is there any doubt that they would release a few photos of speed boats and a Darth Vader electronic voice making threatening taunts.

I can't stretch my credulity enough to believe it. Even if it was true....(the boy who cried wolf).
After giving it some thought, I don't know if I believe it or not; what I do believe is that we can't accept anything that comes out of this administration at face value and that we are in very dangerous times, as Bush is near the end of his terms....and the only times in 8 years when he felt Presidential were with the bull horn at ground zero and hanging in his flyboy harness on the deck of the Mission Accomplished carrier.

Who knows what he might do to save his ego and face. He truly is "all hat and no cattle". So maybe it happened and maybe it didn't; at this time we have no way to know.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:39 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,158,628 times
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Can't speak for what took place at the Gulf Tonkin, but I can speak for this incident recently.




It never ceases to amaze me how something like this is characterized as the next pretext of war with yet another nation. Does a threat exist, absolutely, but seriously look at this picture and ask yourself, do these boats really pose a danger to our navy so great as to justify a war?

I admire, respect, and have complete faith that the US navy, the greatest navy ever to float upon the seas would have blown these tiny little boats off the face of the earth in a matter of seconds. In fact I give them credit for showing such restraint on the day this picture was taken and wonder why they weren't. Possibly a fear of repeating the incident that took place with the USS Vincennes?
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,608,382 times
Reputation: 24858
The government lied as a pretext for a very expensive and profitable war. I am shocked, I tell you, really shocked.

Yeah, right.
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