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Old 02-05-2015, 11:15 AM
 
28,935 posts, read 14,275,697 times
Reputation: 14199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 43north87west View Post
Mental health testing is just another vector for gun control pretending that it is going to actually save lives by removing one tool from a nut job's bottomless tool box. If there isn't a disorder, the mental health profession will gradually be pressured to shift or invent disorders and rearrange thresholds and criteria until there exists a mental health disorder to classify all people who would ever want to own a gun. When gun control people are given an inch, they take a light year.

All mental health testing does, is attempt to limit gun sales, without addressing the underlying issue or preventing the very same person from leveling a building, for example.

As far as mental health testing goes, perhaps "it's time" (the favorite phrase of confiscators of any right or liberty) to evaluate everyone's mental health, allowing only the healthy to proceed into polite society, while restricting anyone who is found to be outside of "normal", such as anyone who takes psych meds of any sort, aspergers people, depressed people, attention deficient people, hyperactive people, or anyone who qualifies as not playing with a full deck for any other reason.

All of these not-normal people could be forced to wear ankle bracelets or get implants for tracking and monitoring, so that the half of society who is actually considered normal, could be forewarned, and those who were potentially a danger to society, could be prevented from doing anything that might just potentially be dangerous to someone, somewhere, at some point.

I'm in favor of that solution for the usual hit parade of reasons: To save children and protect heroes, if it saves one life it's all worthwhile, desperate times call for desperate measures, it's not the 1800s anymore, it takes a village, we're not cavemen, and all of that.
Years ago didn't we just put these people into institutions ? Now we medicate them and send them free with the hopes that they continue to take their meds.

 
Old 02-05-2015, 11:26 AM
 
3,105 posts, read 3,808,995 times
Reputation: 4066
IMO I think we need to hold people accountable for what happens with their gun, even if it's not them who's pulling the trigger... unless it was taken from your possession by force, or was force-ably taken from a safe.

Leaving a loaded gun around for kids to get into is beyond stupid.

If you want to keep a loaded gun around, then fine. But you should keep it on your person at all times if anyone else is around.

Over all I think it's great that you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force in America.

There will always be down sides, but I think there's more down sides to being un-armed and at the mercy of criminals.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 11:33 AM
 
37,449 posts, read 45,643,588 times
Reputation: 56860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeenThomas View Post
Hi there! I'm new here and i don't know what do you think about gun-usage.
Hope that it will be good thread and somebody will tell me why i'm wrong or why i'm right!

So, let's speak about gun control, gun ownership and mental health testing.
I often see articles with headlines like "Toddler shot his parents" or "Another shootings in *districtname*" and people in comments often write very stupid arguments to protect themselves and all of gun owners.
Also they like to write something like "Only mad and mentally-ill persons kill people, not guns"
But as we can see from this article Stop blaming mental health for gun violence. The problem is guns. - The Washington Post
only 4 percent of people which used guns was mentally ill.
And now i wanna know your opinion.

P.S. please, post some real arguments, not stats about ids died in swimming pools!
I think this is the Current Events forum and your thread belongs in the great debates forum.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:04 PM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,514,284 times
Reputation: 1723
Hypothetically if all street gangs and the entire drug culture were to be instantly put an end to, gun violence would probably drop by about 95%. That said, I have no idea what you're thinking starting yet another "gun control" thread. There are so many on CD as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeenThomas View Post
Hi there! I'm new here and i don't know what do you think about gun-usage.
Hope that it will be good thread and somebody will tell me why i'm wrong or why i'm right!

So, let's speak about gun control, gun ownership and mental health testing.
I often see articles with headlines like "Toddler shot his parents" or "Another shootings in *districtname*" and people in comments often write very stupid arguments to protect themselves and all of gun owners.
Also they like to write something like "Only mad and mentally-ill persons kill people, not guns"
But as we can see from this article Stop blaming mental health for gun violence. The problem is guns. - The Washington Post
only 4 percent of people which used guns was mentally ill.
And now i wanna know your opinion.

P.S. please, post some real arguments, not stats about ids died in swimming pools!
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:05 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,783,846 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Army_Guy View Post
This is why it's difficult to have a meaningful conversation with gun control advocates.
See, this is what I mean. I ask where Obama implemented some gun control etc. and no one could produce ANYTHING! Who the heck said I was a gun control advocate? YOU? I could care less! I want background checks only. That is IT! Some paper trail! Nothing more. Is that a gun control advocate to you? Really!?!

This is so silly it amazes me. Blind and dumb! Meaningful conversation? You don't even read what I wrote and you want to converse? I guess if you feel there should be guns passed out at the local convince store without even a receipt, then yes, I am a gun control advocate to you. Maybe we just pass them out at school so everyone will be safe.

What I find most amusing is the general population is falling for the big fear campaign. The fear, "they are going to take our guns"! Why do you feel the gun sellers and NRA are saying that? Hmmm! MONEY! It is ALWAYS about money in the USA! ALWAYS! When there is some big push or agenda, there is money to be made. Obama didn't take away any guns, but to read what people write, you would think he wants everyone to hand in all their guns NOW or else. It really is kind of funny!

Look, this gun thing has been going on for decades. It is all about how much money the NRA and gun sellers can make. Don't forget the POWERFUL folks that own the BIG gun manufacturing companies. We aren't talking about some local gun dealer, we are talking about very powerful people with a lot of money at stake.

For the record, I really don't care about the gun issue much, but am very tired of people attacking the president of the USA for no reason. It really is unAmerican if you ask me, to put words in our president's mouth. Stop being so unpatriotic just to support YOUR cause! It is LYING! Plain and simple!
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:05 PM
 
1,994 posts, read 1,509,274 times
Reputation: 2924
Guns are like anything else, including fertilizers, chain saws and butter knives. You could ban all of them and people will still kill each other. We don't ban doctors because some women have abortions do we? We don't ban or control gasoline because the fumes are said to kill more people than guns in the USA so?
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:24 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,519,768 times
Reputation: 18301
Clearly in the past when you could even mail order purchase of guns and America was known as a nation of rifleman. clearly shows is violence by many causes. mental problems isn't a legal excuse only insanity is and clearly the majority are not as they display the knowledge between right and wrong.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:29 PM
 
920 posts, read 628,802 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
See, this is what I mean. I ask where Obama implemented some gun control etc. and no one could produce ANYTHING! Who the heck said I was a gun control advocate? YOU? I could care less! I want background checks only. That is IT! Some paper trail! Nothing more. Is that a gun control advocate to you? Really!?!

This is so silly it amazes me. Blind and dumb! Meaningful conversation? You don't even read what I wrote and you want to converse? I guess if you feel there should be guns passed out at the local convince store without even a receipt, then yes, I am a gun control advocate to you. Maybe we just pass them out at school so everyone will be safe.

What I find most amusing is the general population is falling for the big fear campaign. The fear, "they are going to take our guns"! Why do you feel the gun sellers and NRA are saying that? Hmmm! MONEY! It is ALWAYS about money in the USA! ALWAYS! When there is some big push or agenda, there is money to be made. Obama didn't take away any guns, but to read what people write, you would think he wants everyone to hand in all their guns NOW or else. It really is kind of funny!

Look, this gun thing has been going on for decades. It is all about how much money the NRA and gun sellers can make. Don't forget the POWERFUL folks that own the BIG gun manufacturing companies. We aren't talking about some local gun dealer, we are talking about very powerful people with a lot of money at stake.

For the record, I really don't care about the gun issue much, but am very tired of people attacking the president of the USA for no reason. It really is unAmerican if you ask me, to put words in our president's mouth. Stop being so unpatriotic just to support YOUR cause! It is LYING! Plain and simple!
The Obama administration has taken many "under the radar" (read - not reported on MSNBC) actions to restrict the 2nd Amendment. Including "Operation Choke-hold" wherein thousands of gun store owners with good credit and longtime banking relationships have recently been surprised by their banks’ decisions to deny loans, refuse to process online sales and freeze or close accounts. Often, the banks have cited a newfound timidity for their customer’s line of business.

“Operation Choke Point effectively transformed the FDIC guidance into an implicit threat of federal investigation. Suddenly, doing business with a ‘high-risk’ merchant is sufficient to trigger a subpoena by the Department of Justice. Banks are put in an unenviable position: discontinue longstanding, profitable relationships with fully licensed and legal businesses, or face a potentially ruinous lawsuit by the Department of Justice.”

I agree that the public is falling for a "big fear campaign," but I disagree with you on where the fear mongering emanates from.

Basically, this thread was started by someone who has never owned a gun, has never purchased a gun, has likely never taken a gun safety class or gone to a shooting range, but knows all about the fire arm industry, the mental health community, etc. If the OP actually ever tried to purchase a firearm LEGALLY, he would know just how ill informed he really, really, really, really (did I mention how really ill informed) he is.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:32 PM
 
28,935 posts, read 14,275,697 times
Reputation: 14199
Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
See, this is what I mean. I ask where Obama implemented some gun control etc. and no one could produce ANYTHING! Who the heck said I was a gun control advocate? YOU? I could care less! I want background checks only. That is IT! Some paper trail! Nothing more. Is that a gun control advocate to you? Really!?!

This is so silly it amazes me. Blind and dumb! Meaningful conversation? You don't even read what I wrote and you want to converse? I guess if you feel there should be guns passed out at the local convince store without even a receipt, then yes, I am a gun control advocate to you. Maybe we just pass them out at school so everyone will be safe.

What I find most amusing is the general population is falling for the big fear campaign. The fear, "they are going to take our guns"! Why do you feel the gun sellers and NRA are saying that? Hmmm! MONEY! It is ALWAYS about money in the USA! ALWAYS! When there is some big push or agenda, there is money to be made. Obama didn't take away any guns, but to read what people write, you would think he wants everyone to hand in all their guns NOW or else. It really is kind of funny!

Look, this gun thing has been going on for decades. It is all about how much money the NRA and gun sellers can make. Don't forget the POWERFUL folks that own the BIG gun manufacturing companies. We aren't talking about some local gun dealer, we are talking about very powerful people with a lot of money at stake.

For the record, I really don't care about the gun issue much, but am very tired of people attacking the president of the USA for no reason. It really is unAmerican if you ask me, to put words in our president's mouth. Stop being so unpatriotic just to support YOUR cause! It is LYING! Plain and simple!

10 exclamation marks....someone is extremely excited. Your reply reads like a over emotional teenager.

I believe the person chose the term "gun control advocate" because it was a lot more adult than calling you an "anti" a "dolt" or a "liberal A_$$hat"
I think he was pretty much right in saying he couldn't have a decent dialog with you.
 
Old 02-05-2015, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,761 posts, read 1,705,185 times
Reputation: 2541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
A gun is a highly effective tool to kill yourself or others if you mix that in with stupidity then it is a potentially deadly situation.
The same can be said for cars, drugs, alcohol, a backyard swimming pool, all kinds of things can be deadly if not used properly.
If we didn't have guns there would be other tools people would use to kill each other.
I just watched a video of a guy who can shoot 3 aimed arrows from his bow in 2 seconds.
Where there is a will to kill there is a way to do it.

Agree totally. There isn't an item I can think of that couldn't be used to kill someone if you really think about it. Anything from a knife, baseball bat, cast iron skillet, rock, water, plastic bag, belt, vehicle, buildings of 3 stores or more, legal over the counter drugs.....shall I go on ?

Guns may currently be a very "efficient" way to kill people, but if there were absolutely no guns in the entire world, I doubt the murder rate would be much (if any) less than it is now. Those who desire to do so, would develop other "efficient" ways to kill people. And no, you can't simply subtract all the gun deaths in the US from the total gun death rate and tell me that's how many lives would have been saved.....that's terribly faulty logic and any thinking person should realize that.

Those comparing laws governing automobiles to those governing guns are silly. No where in the US Constitution are auto's mentioned, but guns (called "arms" in the Constitution) are specifically mentioned....and obviously important enough to be one of the 10 items specifically protected in the Bill of Rights.

However, if we're going to jump on the bandwagon of giving up our rights.....how about requiring a license to practice free speech ? How many people (many of them kids) have been driven to suicide by bullying....which most of the time includes continual horrible, hateful and destructive speech towards another human being, ultimately ending with them taking their own life. Sure sounds like a good idea to me, how about you ?

Perhaps some think the real problem is the specific implement the person uses to take their own life and not the continual hateful "free speech" preceding it ? Just wondering if we should go further in eliminating provisions in the Bill of Rights for the good of all ! Let me know when you decide and I'm sure many will be happy to proceed accordingly.
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