Our Founders Couldn't Have Envisioned This...... (drug, weapons, crimes, economic)

[WhipperSnapper 88]

When the subject of guns comes up, the arguments on both sides are always the same. One of the common ones is that our founders could never have imagined the modern weapons we have today and the lethality and carnage they they can inflict when in the wrong hands..... It so happens that I disagree with that, when you take in to account the intents of the 2A I think it's reasonable to conclude that they used the vague term "arms" for a reason..... But there are some things I DON'T think our founders ever envisioned.....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society as morally bankrupt as this one....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that fetishizes violence and supposed "righteous" indignation to the extent this one does.... or a culture of casual, care free sexual promiscuity to the extent that this behaviour is pervieved as "normal" and perpetuates a sort of anxiety from those who are excluded from such deviance and feel marginalized from the fabric of that society.... or a culture that embraces and glorifies substance abuse in the politically correct form of recreational drug use.

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so dependant and coddled, and that fosters a victim mentality to the estent that when someone encounters the slightestr bit of adversity, their entire world is turned upside down....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so regressed to the point where time honored and vitally important structures such as the family unit have been degradated and devalued,

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that has devalued life itself to the levels that this society has....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society where the concept of morals and decency are looked upon as outdated...

So do we have problems? Yeah.... maybe even a gun problem. This constant barrage of random violence has me re-thinking my hardline stance on gun rights, but if we think guns are the only problem here, well, we're just fooling ourselves....

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

When the subject of guns comes up, the arguments on both sides are always the same. One of the common ones is that our founders could never have imagined the modern weapons we have today and the lethality and carnage they they can inflict when in the wrong hands..... It so happens that I disagree with that, when you take in to account the intents of the 2A I think it's reasonable to conclude that they used the vague term "arms" for a reason..... But there are some things I DON'T think our founders ever envisioned.....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society as morally bankrupt as this one....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that fetishizes violence and supposed "righteous" indignation to the extent this one does.... or a culture of casual, care free sexual promiscuity to the extent that this behaviour is pervieved as "normal" and perpetuates a sort of anxiety from those who are excluded from such deviance and feel marginalized from the fabric of that society.... or a culture that embraces and glorifies substance abuse in the politically correct form of recreational drug use.

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so dependant and coddled, and that fosters a victim mentality to the estent that when someone encounters the slightestr bit of adversity, their entire world is turned upside down....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so regressed to the point where time honored and vitally important structures such as the family unit have been degradated and devalued,

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that has devalued life itself to the levels that this society has....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society where the concept of morals and decency are looked upon as outdated...

So do we have problems? Yeah.... maybe even a gun problem. This constant barrage of random violence has me re-thinking my hardline stance on gun rights, but if we think guns are the only problem here, well, we're just fooling ourselves....

I actually agree with this(although i think for different specific reasons than you).

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

When the subject of guns comes up, the arguments on both sides are always the same. One of the common ones is that our founders could never have imagined the modern weapons we have today and the lethality and carnage they they can inflict when in the wrong hands..... It so happens that I disagree with that, when you take in to account the intents of the 2A I think it's reasonable to conclude that they used the vague term "arms" for a reason..... But there are some things I DON'T think our founders ever envisioned.....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society as morally bankrupt as this one....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that fetishizes violence and supposed "righteous" indignation to the extent this one does.... or a culture of casual, care free sexual promiscuity to the extent that this behaviour is pervieved as "normal" and perpetuates a sort of anxiety from those who are excluded from such deviance and feel marginalized from the fabric of that society.... or a culture that embraces and glorifies substance abuse in the politically correct form of recreational drug use.

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so dependant and coddled, and that fosters a victim mentality to the estent that when someone encounters the slightestr bit of adversity, their entire world is turned upside down....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so regressed to the point where time honored and vitally important structures such as the family unit have been degradated and devalued,

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that has devalued life itself to the levels that this society has....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society where the concept of morals and decency are looked upon as outdated...

So do we have problems? Yeah.... maybe even a gun problem. This constant barrage of random violence has me re-thinking my hardline stance on gun rights, but if we think guns are the only problem here, well, we're just fooling ourselves....

well said, too bad i cant rep you right now.

[pknopp]

Why is it that when there is already a discussion going on about something there is always someone that believes what they have to say is so much more important than anyone else and they have to start their own thread?

[arctichomesteader]

Jefferson somewhat foresaw this:

"When they get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe. Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to; convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty." --Jefferson, 1787

Psychological research is just beginning to show that urban environments lead to greater aggression and harm us intellectually. For example: How the city hurts your brain - The Boston Globe
Combine those impacts with a society that worships consumerism and a few other issues and you have problems. It's not guns, it's the people and their environment.

[Phil P]

And we can't envision the time of the founding fathers where slavery was allowed to produce commodity crops, economic growth was handouts of free money (land to the west), alcoholism was probably just as bad, sexual promiscuity existed but was a insider only thing, and human life was valued less so than it is today. I think we have progressed morally as time has gone on, just with issues arising and coming up front that weren't there or exposed before.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Jefferson somewhat foresaw this:

"When they get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe. Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to; convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty." --Jefferson, 1787

Psychological research is just beginning to show that urban environments lead to greater aggression and harm us intellectually. For example: How the city hurts your brain - The Boston Globe
Combine those impacts with a society that worships consumerism and a few other issues and you have problems. It's not guns, it's the people and their environment.

If I had to live in cities during that time I would hold Jeffersons views too. The modern city is not comparable to old cities in terms of QOL.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Jefferson somewhat foresaw this:

"When they get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe. Above all things I hope the education of the common people will be attended to; convinced that on their good sense we may rely with the most security for the preservation of a due degree of liberty." --Jefferson, 1787

Psychological research is just beginning to show that urban environments lead to greater aggression and harm us intellectually. For example: How the city hurts your brain - The Boston Globe
Combine those impacts with a society that worships consumerism and a few other issues and you have problems. It's not guns, it's the people and their environment.

Thats not really what that article is saying, or maybe it is trying to say that, but provides no evidence to support its claim other than saying it is harder to remember 40 things than it is 3, btu that is common sense.

[2nd trick op]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88

When the subject of guns comes up, the arguments on both sides are always the same. One of the common ones is that our founders could never have imagined the modern weapons we have today and the lethality and carnage they they can inflict when in the wrong hands..... It so happens that I disagree with that, when you take in to account the intents of the 2A I think it's reasonable to conclude that they used the vague term "arms" for a reason..... But there are some things I DON'T think our founders ever envisioned.....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society as morally bankrupt as this one....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that fetishizes violence and supposed "righteous" indignation to the extent this one does.... or a culture of casual, care free sexual promiscuity to the extent that this behaviour is pervieved as "normal" and perpetuates a sort of anxiety from those who are excluded from such deviance and feel marginalized from the fabric of that society.... or a culture that embraces and glorifies substance abuse in the politically correct form of recreational drug use.

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so dependant and coddled, and that fosters a victim mentality to the estent that when someone encounters the slightestr bit of adversity, their entire world is turned upside down....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society so regressed to the point where time honored and vitally important structures such as the family unit have been degradated and devalued,

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society that has devalued life itself to the levels that this society has....

I don't think our founders could have ever envisioned a society where the concept of morals and decency are looked upon as outdated...

So do we have problems? Yeah.... maybe even a gun problem. This constant barrage of random violence has me re-thinking my hardline stance on gun rights, but if we think guns are the only problem here, well, we're just fooling ourselves....

Except for the point that "society" doesn't commit crimes and or irresponsible acts; individuals do, and it is those individuals who need to be identified, restrained and/or penalized.

"Society" is nothing but a buzzword, usually invoked by those who seek greater centralization of power in order to advance their own agenda. And the Founding Fathers took a very skeptical view toward the further aggrandization of power within the central government.

[Cavaturaccioli]

I doubt the Founding Fathers envisioned printing presses that could turn hundreds of thousands of newspapers a day; they certainly didn't envision the internet.

Does that make the 1st Amendment any less valid?