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Old 01-09-2008, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 4,221,953 times
Reputation: 354

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastern Roamer View Post
My bad... sorry. What's a twaddle?

But healthcare is not just a political issue, it's a quality of life issue.

Has anyone immigrated here who can offer an experience with our healthcare system versus another? What's your opinion on quality - from a personal view, not a political one?
Ok

I did the opposite. I am an American who is now living in Italy under their socialized medical program (Ranked 5th BEST!!! in this ridiculous survey,, what is it based on? preventable deaths?). Americans would be rioting in the streets if they had this system. It is not horrible mind you. It is just not what Americans are used to.

I hear stories from other Expats who leave Italy's system, go back to the states and rag on the US system. One had HIV and another had some rare type of breast cancer. It was inexplicable why they went back to the US if they thought the Italian system was superior.

The HIV woman went back to the US, hid her HIV from Nordstrom to get coverage and is getting the drugs and care she needs. Honestly, I don't know what the Italian system would provide. Her Italian husband died of AIDS.

The Cancer victim is very strange. She said her drugs cost 30k a year and that if she were in Italy she would have gotten them. My question then is why didn't she just stay?

I survived an assault ten years ago. All the nerves, muscles and arteries cut in my left hand. I was taken to SF General. 5 surgeons put my hand back together.

I witnessed a scooter accident. I was sitting in a car with my Italian Doctor buddy and we rendered assistance. The 18 year old boy hit his hand against the mirror of an oncoming car. Mangled and broken three fingers. My buddy says it will be amputated.

Last edited by Bob The Builder; 01-09-2008 at 03:11 PM..
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:00 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 992,995 times
Reputation: 344
It would make sense to me that the US would be behind socialized countries in providing "timely" health care to our citizens, given that we're an entirely different civilization that operates with an entirely different social, philosophical and economic model, not to mention that we've had a built-in underclass since our founding that consistently skews our statistics for the worse- something France or Sweden don't have. When you take them out of the equation, we usually do a lot better.

There's a reason that Louisiana and Mississippi consistently score the "lowest" in almost everything. It's because they have the "highest percentage" of those who have consistently shown to be an enormous drag on the statistics that measure progress, achievement and civilization.
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,167,491 times
Reputation: 6551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rankin View Post
What gets me is when someone who "hates" him has never watched one of his movies.
I have watched one of his movies. The one about gun violence in america. It as expected was a biased work that portrayed all white males as gun toting rednecks.
The segment about the pilgrims etc.
Yeah he makes a great movie I endured the entire movie to have bragging rights that I have a high endurance to total B.S
I own guns. I dont have a conceal permit, I don't live in fear of attack by minorities. I in fact don't live in fear at all.
I don't own guns so that I can feel like a man. I own guns because I enjoy target shooting.
Moore is like most liberal hypocrits. He stereo types just as bad as the rednecks they hate. He strikes me as someone who got his butt kicked all through school and he wants to pay back his former oppressors. Like many he understands his mouth can say about anything and no one can retaliate against him.
In short he is a flake and his rhetoric appeals to idiots.
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 4,221,953 times
Reputation: 354
If I don't believe all that Michael Moore says after watching one of his movies, does that mean I hate him?
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:22 PM
 
13,631 posts, read 20,702,790 times
Reputation: 7630
I have seen Moore's first three movies and felt it was not worth wasting money on the fourth. Should someone lend me a copy, I will watch it. I did like Roger and Me though.

He does not make documentaries. Rather, his films are montages intended to make a point, but coming across more as spoofs. Frontline is a documentary. Nova is a documentary. Ken Burns makes documentaries. Michael Moore makes absurd rants.

And before you dismiss me as right wing nut, know this. I sympathize with the issues of his first three films, especially the second about guns. But for crying out loud, does anyone really thing that was an objective look at the gun culture of America? Moore is no sociologist but he plays one in his montages.

And Fahrenheit 911? Come one, playing the theme to the Magnificent 7 with Bush and his cronies up there is funny. But is it serious or scholarly?

And they are loaded with dishonesty. Claiming the missles are secretly moved at night so nobody knows (Columbine). No, they're moved at night because they are large and slow and there tends to be less traffic at night.

Or expressing horror (Fahrenheit 911) that the Secret Service was protecting the Saudi Embassy. Guess what Mike, that is what the Secret Service does. It protects embassies, all of them. I know. I live near them.

Moore is a good laugh but I cannot imagine the level of a mind that actually takes him seriously. Were his histrionics of a different bend, he'd fit right into Fox News.
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:24 PM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,457,852 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastern Roamer View Post
I suppose it's all a big, liberal conspiracy to make the great U S of A look bad, eh? If only greatness were measured by how much we consume, like we think it is.
No, I'd call it a moneymaking scheme that exploits many peoples' ignorance about how our government/society actually works. Michael Moore's main tool is juxtaposing unrelated events to make them seem related.

This works great in a documentary format, where there is no one to interrupt and reveal the key pieces of information that Moore conveniently leaves out.
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,167,491 times
Reputation: 6551
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
No, I'd call it a moneymaking scheme that exploits many peoples' ignorance about how our government/society actually works. Michael Moore's main tool is juxtaposing unrelated events to make them seem related.

This works great in a documentary format, where there is no one to interrupt and reveal the key pieces of information that Moore conveniently leaves out.
That was really well said......
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Old 01-09-2008, 03:32 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 992,995 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
That was really well said......
Yes, it was.
Brilliant insight and so well put.
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:54 PM
 
746 posts, read 841,010 times
Reputation: 135
I cannot stand Michaell Moore. He exploits people he claims to care about. Um, i guess they have a name for those types. Democrats or Liberals!
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Old 01-09-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
5,152 posts, read 8,504,453 times
Reputation: 2038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I have seen Moore's first three movies and felt it was not worth wasting money on the fourth. Should someone lend me a copy, I will watch it. I did like Roger and Me though.

He does not make documentaries. Rather, his films are montages intended to make a point, but coming across more as spoofs. Frontline is a documentary. Nova is a documentary. Ken Burns makes documentaries. Michael Moore makes absurd rants.

And before you dismiss me as right wing nut, know this. I sympathize with the issues of his first three films, especially the second about guns. But for crying out loud, does anyone really thing that was an objective look at the gun culture of America? Moore is no sociologist but he plays one in his montages.

And Fahrenheit 911? Come one, playing the theme to the Magnificent 7 with Bush and his cronies up there is funny. But is it serious or scholarly?

And they are loaded with dishonesty. Claiming the missles are secretly moved at night so nobody knows (Columbine). No, they're moved at night because they are large and slow and there tends to be less traffic at night.

Or expressing horror (Fahrenheit 911) that the Secret Service was protecting the Saudi Embassy. Guess what Mike, that is what the Secret Service does. It protects embassies, all of them. I know. I live near them.

Moore is a good laugh but I cannot imagine the level of a mind that actually takes him seriously. Were his histrionics of a different bend, he'd fit right into Fox News.

Yea, but the protection that the Saudi Embassy gets is like having a rottwieller protect a slab of meat, when just about all other Embassies have the equal of a Labrador at best.
Did you selectively miss that point in his movie?
I visited the Canadian Embassy in DC 6 years ago and found the "protection" nothing like the Saudi Embassy.
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