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It was the best place to start to stop the threat of terrorism? Why then, now that he's gone, it terrorism way more terrifying than it was 10 years ago? Al Qaeda was bad, but they weren't posting beheading videos on youtube.
And we had won the war? Really? I mean, yeah, we accomplished our shortsighted goals but what did that do? Our options were stay there forever, at least until the Iraqis built up the strength to kick us out, or leave and allow Iraq to fall into chaos. When those are the only two options, that's not a victory and no reasonable person would ever believe that it is.
Indeed. But we did the exact same thing. Both wars started on a false premise, both wars a complete failure (for the same reason).
I guess the real question is why we haven't learned anything from the Cold War?
"both wars a complete failure (for the same reason)."
The "same reason" is that we left BEFORE finishing the job. Neither was READY to defend themselves.
At the time of the Duelfer report, the CIA (actually, an international team, 1400 strong, with British and Australian experts as well) had had full access to every nook, cranny, interrogation report and whatnot inside Iraq. For a full year and 5 months after "the end of major combat operations". To the tune of a round billion dollars. And with every motivation in the world to prove their organization and the administration right.
When after all that, the CIA still had to concede that there was b.gger-all, I find that quite believable, yes.
"At the time of the Duelfer report, the CIA (actually, an international team, 1400 strong, with British and Australian experts as well) had had full access to every nook, cranny, interrogation report and whatnot inside Iraq"
Since most of these countries are creations of the UK (or former colonies of), why isn't the UK cleaning up the mess they made? The UK should have taken the lead in all these problems and not the US.
Do you mean like the UK took command of the D-Day invasion and the continued war in Europe?
Your boy Dubya did a bang-up job of stabilizing Iraq in the 6 years he had to do it.
Actually he was doing a DAMN GOOD JOB. The SURGE WORKED. We kicked Al Qaeda out of EVERY MAJOR city. Even Obama admitted that they were on the run. Iraq had democratic elections.
You can ignore it all id you wish but, that doesn't make it so.
Do you mean like the UK took command of the D-Day invasion and the continued war in Europe?
Oh, wait. That was us.
Maybe BECAUSE the UK couldn't.
The UK made the mess long before WW1 and within days after WW2. They passed the buck to the US to make them the workers while the UK reaped all the gains.
Actually he was doing a DAMN GOOD JOB. The SURGE WORKED. We kicked Al Qaeda out of EVERY MAJOR city. Even Obama admitted that they were on the run. Iraq had democratic elections.
You can ignore it all id you wish but, that doesn't make it so.
Yep.
Dubya's record in Iraq will go down in the history books as another smooth move.
I've been trying to figure out how to reply to this thread without stepping on feet. He was a nasty piece of work, no getting around that. But he did keep the religious factions under control. I don't know if western people understand that.
You're not stepping on *my* feet. The us helped him gain power in iraq because we expected him to do that very thing - "keep the religious factions under control". US taxpayers spent a lot of money giving him weapons to do just that.
"install a new one that is monitored by the US military, then leave and just assume the government that has been dependent for it's entire existence would stay in tact?'
Which is WHY many say too early. The job of helping set up the new gov't and training the Iraqi police and military was NOT FINISHED.
NO ONE surrendered. Obama just quit. and Iraq was NOT ready to defend itself.
Here's the actual agreement between iraq and the us regarding the withdrawal of us troops. Read it for yourself.
Obama was observing the agreement that had been negotiated and signed before he was inaugurated. If you disagree with the agreement, fine, but remember, obama won in part because americans were sick of the war.
This war was built on lies and predictions of people ignorant to the reality of what they were embarking upon.
11/15/1999, Dick Cheney, CEO of Halliburton (Vice President) “Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer great oil opportunities, the Middle East with two-thirds of the world’s oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greater access there, progress continues to be slow.” (at the London Institute of Petroleum)
10/11/2000, George W. Bush, Candidate for President
“I don’t think our troops ought to be used for what’s called nation building.”
02/26/2001, L. Paul Bremmer III (became head of Iraq occupation)
“The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there’s a major incident and then suddenly say, `Oh, my God, shouldn’t we be organized to deal with this?’ “?
10/29/2001, Michael Leeden, American Enterprise Institute
“Just wage a total war against these tyrants; I think we will do very well and our children will sing great songs about us years from now.”
02/13/2002, Kenneth Adelman, a member of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board “Liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk.”
09/18/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense (before Congress)
“We do know that the Iraqi regime has chemical and biological weapons. His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons — including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas. … His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons—including anthrax and botulism toxin, and possibly smallpox.” (presentation to Congress)
10/7/2002, George W. Bush, President
“The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas.”
11/01/2002, George W. Bush, President
“… for the sake of protecting our friends and allies, the United States will lead a mighty coalition of freedom-loving nations and disarm Saddam Hussein. See, I can’t imagine what was going through the mind of this enemy when they hit us. They probably thought the national religion was materialism, that we were so selfish and so self-absorbed that after 9/11/2001 this mighty nation would take a couple of steps back and file a lawsuit.
11/14/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
“I’m glad you asked. It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil.”
11/15/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
“Five days or five months, but it certainly isn’t going to last longer.”
01/10/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense “… something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question.”
02/08/2003, George W. Bush, President
“We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner. This network runs a poison and explosive training camp in northeast Iraq, and many of its leaders are known to be in Baghdad.”
03/16/2003, Dick Cheney, Vice President
“My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . [in] weeks rather than months.”
03 / 19 / 2003. Start of Iraq War
03/22/2003, General Tommy Franks
“There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. As this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.”
03/27/2003, Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary “There’s a lot of money to pay for this … the oil revenues of that country could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three years…We’re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.”
03/30/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
“We know where they are [Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction]. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.”
05/01/2003, George W. Bush, President “My fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended.” Under the banner “Mission Accomplished.”
05/09/2003, Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary (phone interview with Vanity Fair)
“The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason, but — hold on one second… [Interrupted by DOD attorney].”
07/02/2003, George W. Bush, President
“There are some who feel like — that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring ‘em on! We’ve got the force necessary …”
07/24/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
“No. That’s someone else’s business. Quagmire is — I don’t do quagmires.”
09/14/2003, Dick Cheney, Vice President
“If we’re successful in Iraq … we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11.“
09/17/2003, George W. Bush, President
Q: Mr. President, Dr. Rice and Secretary Rumsfeld both said yesterday that they have seen no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with September 11th. THE PRESIDENT: “We’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th.”
06/28/2004, Dick Cheney, Vice President
“Two days ahead of schedule, the world witnessed the arrival of a free and sovereign Iraq.”
03/31/2005, President’s Commission on WMD
We conclude that the Intelligence Community was dead wrong in almost all of its pre-war judgments about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. —Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction
06/29/2005, Dick Cheney, Vice President
I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.
3/18/2006, Dick Cheney, Vice President,
“Q: About a year ago, you said that the insurgency in Iraq was in its final throes. Do you still believe this? Cheney: Yes.“
05/22/2006, George W. Bush, President
“We have now reached a turning point in the struggle between freedom and terror."
09/10/2006, Dick Cheney, Vice President
“If we had to do it over again we would do exactly the same thing.” Q: Exactly the same thing? Cheney: Yes, Sir.
09/11/2006, US Government Accounting Office,(gao.gov/new.items/d061094t.pdf)
“Attacks against the coalition and its Iraqi partners reached an all time high during July 2006.”
01/18/2007, Henry Kissinger (Advisor to G. W. Bush; Secretary of State under Nixon and Ford)
“They [American forces] are there as an expression of the American national interest to prevent the Iranian combination of imperialism and fundamentalist ideology from dominating a region on which the energy supplies of the industrial democracy depend."
9/9/2008, Alan Greenspan, Chairman of the Federal Reserve through 2005. (from The Age of Turbulence, p.463)
“I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil.”
In hindsight it was a mistake as he was easier to deal with than the replacement governments. Same with Libya and now Syria. The best thing we could do is to make a pack with Assad.
Overall. Left and Right, the West thinks that all nations are ready for Democracy. Many are not.
Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner here . Saddam and brutal but effective at keeping the peace. The same as Gaddafi and to a lesser degree Mubarak. The reality is the war was waged because little Bush wasn't to finish the job that the elder Bush didn't think was wise to do.
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. Saddam and brutal but effective at keeping the peace. The same as Gaddafi and to a lesser degree Mubarak. The reality is the war was waged because little Bush wasn't to finish the job that the elder Bush didn't think was wise to do.
