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The burden of proof is on you. Where is the evidence to back up your claim that Putin's op-ed pushed the U.S. to retaliate by overthrowing Ukraine's government?
As for Victoria Nuland, I've read the transcript from that leaked phone call. She was disparaging the EU over their response to Ukraine.
It was NOT all due to an op-ed piece.
Ukraine shunned the IMF loan in favor of a Russian loan.
The coup was staged to get puppets in the Ukraine government that would go with the IMF loan.
You keep asking for "credible" links. Do you honestly think any government is going to come out and say it directly ? The US has a history of staging coups in countries that go against the "game plan".
That's not how geopolitics works.
Start here. And then go off and google artlcles for yourself.
Russia/Syria/IMF loans and oil/petrodollar are all connected.
The burden of proof is on you. Where is the evidence to back up your claim that Putin's op-ed pushed the U.S. to retaliate by overthrowing Ukraine's government?
As for Victoria Nuland, I've read the transcript from that leaked phone call. She was disparaging the EU over their response to Ukraine.
You think events occur in isoation? Wow that's stupid.
The Nuland conversation occurred before the coup. The Euros were stonewalling the plan so the US just proceeded.
O has lost interest now so the western Ukes will be hung out to dry.
It's likely there will be another coup with the Right Sector t
taking over and the economy collapsing.
The US staged a coup. It was punishment for Putin getting in O's way in his attempt to push Assad out of Syria. The power vacuum would have been filled by ISIS.
This is true, but it's important to remember the reason we wanted Assad out is because he wouldn't allow US oil companies to run a pipeline through Syria, up into Turkey and then into Europe with the goal of cutting off Russia's gas/oil business. Assad instead signed a deal with Russia to let them build a pipeline through Syria. That's when we turned on Assad and decided he had to go. The problem is Americans have had enough elective war and even the average American understood that the alternative to Assad was ISIS or Al Queda. Hell, even Obama understood that which is why he didn't go all-in like Hillary and the brass wanted him to.
It was NOT all due to an op-ed piece.
Ukraine shunned the IMF loan in favor of a Russian loan.
The coup was staged to get puppets in the Ukraine government that would go with the IMF loan.
You keep asking for "credible" links. Do you honestly think any government is going to come out and say it directly ? The US has a history of staging coups in countries that go against the "game plan".
That's not how geopolitics works.
Start here. And then go off and google artlcles for yourself.
Russia/Syria/IMF loans and oil/petrodollar are all connected.
I ask because with this particular topic, the "proof" is often in the form of blogs, Russian propaganda, or taking a government official's words out of context.
I'm aware of America's history of meddling to overthrow governments, however I am not convinced (at this point) that the U.S. staged the overthrow of Yanukovych. Ukraine is an impoverished country without much of anything in our interest aside from a possible NATO expansion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goinback2011
You think events occur in isoation? Wow that's stupid.
The Nuland conversation occurred before the coup. The Euros were stonewalling the plan so the US just proceeded.
O has lost interest now so the western Ukes will be hung out to dry.
It's likely there will be another coup with the Right Sector t
taking over and the economy collapsing.
Shrug. The alternative is that no nation on the planet will EVER believe any treaty signed that removes nuclear weapons, and assures their borders. Russia has set back the concept of nuclear non-proliferation by centuries.
IDK....anyone stupid enough to trust Russia on that is kinda on their own IMO.
If you are going to do that, NATO membership should have been mandatory to accepting that deal.
Shrug. The alternative is that no nation on the planet will EVER believe any treaty signed that removes nuclear weapons, and assures their borders. Russia has set back the concept of nuclear non-proliferation by centuries.
It was NOT all due to an op-ed piece.
Ukraine shunned the IMF loan in favor of a Russian loan.
The coup was staged to get puppets in the Ukraine government that would go with the IMF loan.
Here's some more conjecture. Yanukovych was a Russian puppet. The Ukraine-Russian action plan in which Russia would purchase $15 Billion of Ukrainian Eurobonds and lower the cost for natural gas imported from Russia as well as entry into the Eurasian Customs Union was conditional that he reject the EU association agreement in favor of closer ties to Moscow. Yanukovych relented and civil unrest ensued. Given that a $2 Billion dollar loan was being withheld from Moscow until the protests were "crushed", a violent suppression of the unrest commenced. Protesters are murdered. The loan is given. The revolution grows. Yanukovych is ousted and finds safety in Russia.
Angered that he no longer controls the Ukraine and concerned about the inevitable closer ties that will develop between Ukraine and the west (the halting of payments to Gazprom, possible NATO alliance, and most importantly the termination of the leases to Crimean ports for the Black Sea fleet), Putin instructs his soldiers in Crimea to initiate an armed, clandestine takeover of the region. The insurrection is successful. Under the barrel of AK47s, the Crimean parliament votes to hold a referendum. The referendum is held and monitored by up to 135 Moscow-picked international observers with ties to organizations such as the Eurasion Observatory for Democracy and Elections (google it). The referendum is successful. Soon after, Russia formally admits Crimea into its union. Crimea is saved; the Sevastopol ports, the oil.
Quote:
The US has a history of staging coups in countries that go against the "game plan".
Whereas Russia (In addition to coups) has a history of placing pawns in positions of power over their neighbors breakaway regions, inciting civil conflict when the national governments even hint at undermining Russian influence over their territory, providing support to the rebellious groups under the pretext of "protecting ethnic Russians", and subsequently annexing that territory. Let me know if this sounds familiar?
---March 7, 2008 - Abkhazia appeals to the United Nations to recognize its independence from Georgia. This comes just a few days after South Ossetia does the same.
---March 21, 2008 - Russia's Duma passes a resolution calling on the Russian government to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
---April 20, 2008 - A Georgian UAV is shot down over Abkhazia. Georgia released a video from the drone showing a Russian MIG29 firing the fatal blow. A Russian ambassador to Nato denied this of course and stated that it may have been a NATO MIG which destroyed the UAV. An independent UN investigation concluded (using the video and radar information) that the drone was indeed shot down by a Russian MIG.
---April 30, 2008 - Accusing Georgia of attempting to invade Abkhazia, Russia declares its intention to boost Russian forces in the region and "take retaliatory measures" to "protect Russian passport-holders"
---May 18, 2008 - Georgia provides the BBC with footage of Russian troops positioning military equipment in Abkhazia.
---May 20, 2008 - President of North Ossetia, Medoyev, suggest an interim period where South Ossetia would be recognized as independent and then formally incorporated into Russia through a referendum.[69]
---June 17, 2008 - Georgia detains Russian "peacekeepers" and a military vehicle transporting 35 crates of ammunition including guided missiles and anti-tank mines across the border.
---July 1, 2008 - Gazprom admits to planning an oilpipeline route into Abkhazia.Did someone say oil?
---July 14, 2008 - Russia admits that its military aircraft fly over South Ossetia. Sorta like "as it turns out we do have Russian troops in Crimea".
---August 5, 2008 - Ambassador Yuri Popov states that "if events develop according to the worst-case violence scenario, Russia will not allow itself to remain indifferent, considering that Russian citizens live in South Ossetia, particularly in the conflict zone."
---August 8, 2008 - Russian troops enter Georgia and capture Tskhinvali.
---August 14, 2008 - President of Poland Lech Kaczynski arrives in Tbilisi and declares, "Today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, and Baltic Republik and later my country Poland"
---August 26, 2008 - Russia formally recognizes the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In violation of the ceasefire, the Russian military still occupies the regions and maintains military and political control.
Quote:
Start here. And then go off and google artlcles for yourself.
Russia/Surkov/Gazprom/EU Association Agreement are definitely connected.
And here's Igor Girkin admitting that "members of the Parliament were gathered by the militants, who forced them into the hall to make them vote, be sure."
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