Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You know, it's funny, I've recently come under the conclusion that Israel Firsters are obsessed with painting the Shia factions as evil because they hate Iran so much, and here it is, plain as day. WINEP, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, says the same thing over and over. AIPAC created WINEP.
First off, there's no way any serious person who has looked at Iraq can come away thinking Maliki is a "role reversal" with Saddam. It seems to me you're trying to equate the two, if not I apologize. But if so, you're way off the mark. The Shiite factions were pretty darn reasonable up until Al Qaeda and Ex-Baathists ran around bombing thousands of people. Even at their worst, I don't see how the Shia factions come close to Saddam's scale of brutality.
Regarding your point C, the US never installed a Shiite leader in Iraq. That was done by Iraqi elections. I believe Maliki was recommended by the US authority, but even if he was not picked by the US, the elections would've resulted in a Shia leader no matter what. Hopefully you're not suggesting the US should've used military force to ensure some kinda result that you're more happy with.
My suspicions of your motives regarding Israel's participation fighting against the Islamic State had been correct. You do not care about the outcome of Syria or Iraq, and your motives is not about destroying the Islamic State, but to further isolate and delegitimize Israel as an ally with the United States. Even my Anti-Israel crowd was wondering what on earth you are talking about..
I'm not going to discuss in detail why Iran is the primary concern in the Middle East or its sponsorship with terrorism. Hezbollah, is the vanguard of Shiite hegemony through out the region which is causing sectarian divide and disruption, from the Sunni's who want the hegemonic power.
I'm going to give you a brief history lesson. The entire region of Middle East has been divided by sectarian loyalty. During the Ottoman Empire, these desires were suppressed due to the authoritarian nature of the regime. Once the Ottoman's fell and Western Imperialism installed Nation States from it's Mandates, the sectarian battle of power increased. The concept of the "Nation State" was artificial to the regions people, where tribal loyalty prevailed. Artificial borders were created by the Western World and National leaders were selected by the West simply by who they thought at the time they could trust. When a country like Syria today, has Sunni, Shia, Christians, Alawites, Druze, Christians, Maronites (Lebanon), ect. Who is the leader? What is the religious law? Combined with the dogmatic and authoritarian leaderships we see today, we have sectarian violence.
Under Sadam, this authoritarian regime suppressed the Shia populations. When Sadam was ousted, a vacuum was created , Shia religious affiliate Maliki was installed (or elected), and is slowly becoming a puppet to Iran. Iraq now has had the roles reversed and is suppressing the Sunni's. This created popularity of ISIS by many Sunni's, in opposition. Dogmatic regimes and the Sunni-Shia rift has caused the decomposition of Iraq. There is no clean side on a turd, Shia or Sunni terrorist are all the same, and have done the same.
And in this mess, you are upholding Israel to intervene and solve this intense conflict.
It's weird, when 9/11 happened, Israel was very enthusiastic about trying to link 9/11 to the jihadist attacks Israel suffers. They really wanted to cement that US-Israeli partnership in taking on jihadists. But here we are in 2015 and these jihadists, the worst we've seen in a very long time.... not Israel's problem!
It's weird, when 9/11 happened, Israel was very enthusiastic about trying to link 9/11 to the jihadist attacks Israel suffers. They really wanted to cement that US-Israeli partnership in taking on jihadists. But here we are in 2015 and these jihadists, the worst we've seen in a very long time.... not Israel's problem!
Care to refute my post or are we just simply basking in Israeli hatred rhetoric?
"My suspicions of your motives regarding Israel's participation fighting against the Islamic State had been correct. You do not care about the outcome of Syria or Iraq, and your motives is not about destroying the Islamic State, but to further isolate and delegitimize Israel as an ally with the United States. Even my Anti-Israel crowd was wondering what on earth you are talking about.."
OH MAN, you blew the lid off of my operation again. My operation lids keep getting blown off. They're littering the floor. So many lids. Everywhere with the lids.
But seriously, no, as much as I think 1948 was a mistake and that Israel never should've been created, ISIS is a thousand times worse than Israel. And if you weren't so defensive about Israel you wouldn't contort yourself into thinking what you do
"I'm not going to discuss in detail why Iran is the primary concern in the Middle East or its sponsorship with terrorism. Hezbollah, is the vanguard of Shiite hegemony through out the region which is causing sectarian divide and disruption, from the Sunni's who want the hegemonic power. "
Iran is the primary concern for you because of your love of Israel. I don't know how anyone can read news about the Middle East and think Iran is a bigger evil than ISIS. Iran was trying to defeat Saddam Hussein since the 1980s. All the people who now run Iraq, after winning democratic elections, were people Iran was supporting in the 1980s. The US helped Saddam kill Iranians and those Iraqis. That was a huge mistake. It was Saddam who invaded Iran
ISIS is committing genocide. They're the ones slaughtering innocent people like it's a game. But somehow the Israel Firsters want to focus on Iran. Iran Iran. Even though Iranian forces are fighting against ISIS in Iraq and Syria
" There is no clean side on a turd, Shia or Sunni terrorist are all the same, and have done the same.
And in this mess, you are upholding Israel to intervene and solve this intense conflict."
I've been reading as much literature as I can about the Iraq conflict. The media paints the Shia-Sunni conflict in broad strokes, particularly in Iraq, and it can often leave the reader with the impression that the Shia factions are just as bad as the Sunni factions. After digging deeper, it really becomes clear that the Shia factions are the far lesser evil. They are not a "clean side of a turd", as you put it, but to say they are "all the same, and have done the same" is a big stretch.
What I'm saying is what I've learned from PBS Frontline interview transcripts with US military officials. When you look at the Iraq war, who are the primary opponents of the US military? The Sunni factions. This isn't a coincidence. Who are the people that the US had to bribe with $400 million to get them to turn on Al Qaeda, after they fought alongside Al Qaeda for so long? The Sunni factions.
As for Israel "solving" the conflict, i do not think that at all.
"My suspicions of your motives regarding Israel's participation fighting against the Islamic State had been correct. You do not care about the outcome of Syria or Iraq, and your motives is not about destroying the Islamic State, but to further isolate and delegitimize Israel as an ally with the United States. Even my Anti-Israel crowd was wondering what on earth you are talking about.."
OH MAN, you blew the lid off of my operation again. My operation lids keep getting blown off. They're littering the floor. So many lids. Everywhere with the lids.
But seriously, no, as much as I think 1948 was a mistake and that Israel never should've been created, ISIS is a thousand times worse than Israel. And if you weren't so defensive about Israel you wouldn't contort yourself into thinking what you do.
That's all you needed to say. You been exposed as an IhateIsrael stronk troll.
Quote:
"I'm not going to discuss in detail why Iran is the primary concern in the Middle East or its sponsorship with terrorism. Hezbollah, is the vanguard of Shiite hegemony through out the region which is causing sectarian divide and disruption, from the Sunni's who want the hegemonic power. "
Iran is the primary concern for you because of your love of Israel. I don't know how anyone can read news about the Middle East and think Iran is a bigger evil than ISIS. Iran was trying to defeat Saddam Hussein since the 1980s. All the people who now run Iraq, after winning democratic elections, were people Iran was supporting in the 1980s. The US helped Saddam kill Iranians and those Iraqis. That was a huge mistake. It was Saddam who invaded Iran
ISIS is committing genocide. They're the ones slaughtering innocent people like it's a game. But somehow the Israel Firsters want to focus on Iran. Iran Iran. Even though Iranian forces are fighting against ISIS in Iraq and Syria
There is no clean side of a turd. Iran is a sponsor of terror who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people world wide. They are just as responsible for terrorist attacks against innocent civilians as ISIS. Iran has even threatened to destroy the country of Israel in public (especially during their holocaust denial conferences) which is in violation of the UN Charter II.
Quote:
" There is no clean side on a turd, Shia or Sunni terrorist are all the same, and have done the same.
And in this mess, you are upholding Israel to intervene and solve this intense conflict."
I've been reading as much literature as I can about the Iraq conflict. The media paints the Shia-Sunni conflict in broad strokes, particularly in Iraq, and it can often leave the reader with the impression that the Shia factions are just as bad as the Sunni factions. After digging deeper, it really becomes clear that the Shia factions are the far lesser evil. They are not a "clean side of a turd", as you put it, but to say they are "all the same, and have done the same" is a big stretch.
What I'm saying is what I've learned from PBS Frontline interview transcripts with US military officials. When you look at the Iraq war, who are the primary opponents of the US military? The Sunni factions. This isn't a coincidence. Who are the people that the US had to bribe with $400 million to get them to turn on Al Qaeda, after they fought alongside Al Qaeda for so long? The Sunni factions.
As for Israel "solving" the conflict, i do not think that at all.
I love how you completely ignored my historical lesson to you. You are motivated by your personal disposition of demonizing Israel and not the clear task at hand.
Besides the desperate civilians who have been oppressed by their leader ( Sunni and Shia ) are really only the ones that are looking for U.S help. Many civilians are even Anti-United States and will support ISIS or Hezzbollah before enjoying U.S occupation. If you paid attention I explained It to you already. Iraq is divided up between dominate Shia and Sunni's, who each want their leader to reflect their religious views. Both sects will kill for power.
Anyhow, and you continue to push Israel into a conflict that it has nothing to do with. Using terminology like "Israeli firster" has welcomed you a spot on my troll list.
It's silly to think that Israel has nothing to do with the conflict. Israel is probably the primary reason the US and other countries have sanctioned Iran and have been strangling its people economically. That has ramifications in Iraq and Syria. Israel's creation and possession of 200 nukes, created partially due to nuclear secrets Israel stole from the US, and its refusal to sign the NPT is a big reason Iran sees the US as hypocritical and untrustworthy. We are literally strangling Iran for doing what Israel already did
And yes I didn't comment on your history lesson because I didn't see what needed to be commented on. What was the point of it? That a combination of Pykes Sicot and tribal allegiances have made the area a violent area? That's kind of old news.
If Saudi Arabia and Iran can work together to defeat ISIS, Israel should be able to do so too. If Iraq's Badr Organization can fight ISIS with the Free Syrian Army, then so can Israel. It's just weird seeing US politicians say that ISIS is a huge threat to America (which is probably highly exagerrated), then Israel, supposedly our greatest ally in the region, is just sitting on the sidelines. I suspect that Israel would be interested in helping out, but the rest of the coalition is so opposed to them that they don't it. But your position seems to be that even if the Arab League was OK with it, you still wouldn't want Israel to help. That to me is just plain cowardly
Anyway, Israel has nothing to worry about. ISIS knows that their military will have no hesitation turning all of it's fighters and their families that sympathize with them into dust particles.
Looking at this thread we've gone back and forth on why Israel is not part of the coalition to take ISIS down. It's pretty simply. There is a group of 22 nations called the Arab League. They may not agree on numerous items within themselves, but they all agree on one thing: They all dislike Israel and want nothing to do with them. If someone can get them to vote for Israel to join in, then Israel will. But until then Israel can't (not won't). The US and all European countries know this. So even if Israel does something on their own that benefits most of these nations, the Arab League will call an emergency session followed by another emergency session at the UN for a resolution against Israel no matter what.
It's silly to think that Israel has nothing to do with the conflict. Israel is probably the primary reason the US and other countries have sanctioned Iran and have been strangling its people economically. That has ramifications in Iraq and Syria. Israel's creation and possession of 200 nukes, created partially due to nuclear secrets Israel stole from the US, and its refusal to sign the NPT is a big reason Iran sees the US as hypocritical and untrustworthy. We are literally strangling Iran for doing what Israel already did
1) Prove the bolded statement with legitimate sources. Prove that U.S interests are not being corrupted by Iran.
2) Prove that Israel stole secrets from the U.S.
3) Prove that Israel by law has to sign the NPT.
Quote:
And yes I didn't comment on your history lesson because I didn't see what needed to be commented on. What was the point of it? That a combination of Pykes Sicot and tribal allegiances have made the area a violent area? That's kind of old news.
Lol it's because you didn't understand what I was talking about. Which is why your hypocritical, because you do not understand the region.
Quote:
If Saudi Arabia and Iran can work together to defeat ISIS, Israel should be able to do so too. If Iraq's Badr Organization can fight ISIS with the Free Syrian Army, then so can Israel. It's just weird seeing US politicians say that ISIS is a huge threat to America (which is probably highly exagerrated), then Israel, supposedly our greatest ally in the region, is just sitting on the sidelines. I suspect that Israel would be interested in helping out, but the rest of the coalition is so opposed to them that they don't it. But your position seems to be that even if the Arab League was OK with it, you still wouldn't want Israel to help. That to me is just plain cowardly
IhateIsrael stonk!!
Anyway, Ill be interested in your proof and documentation on how Israel violated these agreements while Iran's record is scotch free.
"We can't. Iran is an oppressive regime that threatens our ally, Israel."
Some ally. What has Israel done for us lately -- besides inflaming hatred against us and getting Americans killed? We don't owe them anything, they don't have anything we need (e.g., oil), so they're about #50 on my list of concerns.
Quote:
"While I think it's wrong for us to support other oppressive regimes (Saudis, China, etc), at least we haven't been in cahoots with all of them."
Oh, no -- never have we been in cahoots with Saudi Arabia or any other oppressive regime. Uzbekistan has a lovely government, and an even lovelier airfield. Extraordinary rendition? Never heard of it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
