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Old 01-16-2008, 08:02 PM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,552,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
The part of the picture you may be missing is that producer of the widgets in Mexico and Brazil is likely to be an "American" company that went there precisely to exploit the low paid labor.
This might be another post subject, but YES, these foreign "manufacturers" are largely (or at least started out as....) subcontractors to US firms who "farmed out" the manufacturing to China, etc. Mexico got too expensive, that was the first country to make US items to a large extent. When the workers wanted a bigger piece of the $$, the same companies pulled out and went across the Pacific. I don't see any REDUCTION in many of the prices with this lower manufacturing cost, and at the quantities, s hipping becomes negligible. The execs are raking in the difference.

It's a nice theory, by the way, to say "boycott non-US made products." The fact is, you can't. You wouldn't be able to buy anything.

I have several "made in USA" tags on clothes that I am saving....I feel like they are so RARE. They also wear like iron, unlike the "Made in Sri Lanka, China, et al" stuff that is the "new" wear for one season and trash paradigm. I just hate that. The big box stores and "cheap" items have made us a culture of consumers of....junk.

MAYBE AN OFF POINT BUT: Consider that we have subbed out most defense parts to China. I don't think we could build any planes, cars, any military equipment whatsoever if relations with China soured......or they quit lending us money for our deficit......we have junk we bought from them, they have the cash, they loan it back to us, we pay interest.......this is globalization? I call it frightening. We have given away what made this country an economic power......our manufacturing base.....for the profit of very few.

And I beg to differ.....VERY FEW in China have benefitted. Check out the "housing" for factory workers.....and this is a totalitarian state whom I, for one, DO NOT TRUST to maintain productive relations with us in the long term.

Greedy businessmen (accountants? Sorry but....) have made our economic and political policy.

 
Old 01-16-2008, 09:52 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,198,959 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by my54ford
Quote:
Why be ambitous when your Goverment allows you to use herion at will and gets support for it's programs from tax paying ***** house's
Then I should say that every government should support their citizens to use heroin. This way the truly ignorant people take themselves out of the equation.

Besides isn’t this how we dealt with alcohol?

Originally Posted by twojciac
Quote:
Exploit? Finding a buyer and a seller that agree to common terms is explotation now?
Doesn't a (financially rich) pusher exploit the (financially poor) drug addict?
Don't drug-barons exploit the poor farmers by forcing them to cooperate with them by making them 'offers they can't refuse'?

Last edited by Tricky D; 01-16-2008 at 10:04 PM.. Reason: added the drug-baron
 
Old 01-16-2008, 10:45 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,701,973 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBurgess View Post
I don't see any REDUCTION in many of the prices with this lower manufacturing cost, and at the quantities, s hipping becomes negligible. The execs are raking in the difference.
Why is it then that people gripe that Walmart, by using overseas suppliers and dealing in large quantities, exerts its pressure to lower prices where small businesses can't compete?

Also, are you comparing inflation adjusted prices today compared to the good ole' days when manufacturing was done here in the US?

Are you suggesting that there's a conspiracy to keep prices high, even though cost savings were realized overseas? That executives have formed cartels to keep pricing high, and none of them would attempt to take advantage of lower prices to capture market share and benefit from increased volume?
 
Old 01-16-2008, 10:47 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,701,973 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Doesn't a (financially rich) pusher exploit the (financially poor) drug addict?
What the heck are you talking about?
 
Old 01-16-2008, 10:50 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,198,959 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by twojciac
Quote:
What the heck are you talking about?
I guess my English is not English enough for Americans?
 
Old 01-16-2008, 10:56 PM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,552,931 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
Why is it then that people gripe that Walmart, by using overseas suppliers and dealing in large quantities, exerts its pressure to lower prices where small businesses can't compete?

Also, are you comparing inflation adjusted prices today compared to the good ole' days when manufacturing was done here in the US?

Are you suggesting that there's a conspiracy to keep prices high, even though cost savings were realized overseas? That executives have formed cartels to keep pricing high, and none of them would attempt to take advantage of lower prices to capture market share and benefit from increased volume?
Wal Mart's marketing strategy is based on going into areas with small businesses and pricing the locals out of the market....and out of business. Small businesses don't buy in the same quantity -- Wal Mart buys for less but the markup is stlil obscene.

Even at inflation adjusted prices, the markup is way out there.....compare the wages to ours.....

I would not for one moment think of that as a paranoid conspiracy theory, no.....too much cream to skim. What do you think would happen if, rather than subcontractors, the Chinese had their own companies? They'd price US "providers" out of every market....that's my thinking.
 
Old 01-16-2008, 11:14 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,701,973 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBurgess View Post
Wal Mart's marketing strategy is based on going into areas with small businesses and pricing the locals out of the market....and out of business. Small businesses don't buy in the same quantity -- Wal Mart buys for less but the markup is stlil obscene.
Doesn't explain why Walmart would look to move into LA and other large cities where you read about cities blocking their development. There's no denying that they've dominated rural areas, but as you admit, it's pricing that the other businesses can't compete with. Their markup is irrelevant, as they are selling product for less money due to many factors (efficiency, bulk, and buying from overseas). Your statement was that companies aren't passing this savings along to their customers, but Walmart is proof positive that lower prices are being realized... even if it is to the detriment of smaller businesses.

Quote:
Even at inflation adjusted prices, the markup is way out there.....compare the wages to ours.....
Yes, their wages are considerably higher than non-executives. But you haven't shown how this is due to moving manufacturing overseas.

Quote:
I would not for one moment think of that as a paranoid conspiracy theory, no.....too much cream to skim. What do you think would happen if, rather than subcontractors, the Chinese had their own companies? They'd price US "providers" out of every market....that's my thinking.
The Chinese have their own companies. Look at Huawei... they have stolen Cisco's products, even down to the software (IOS) that runs on their routers... to the extent that they had the same bugs as IOS. Their products sell for pennies on the dollar compared to Cisco. The only way Cisco can compete is on quality and support. They're relying on customers such as banks, telecoms, and Fortune 500 companies that lose millions of dollars a minute when a network is down.... where cost of the equipment isn't really a factor. However, they sell like hotcakes in Asia and Brazil where downtime is almost expected.

There's a ironworks factory in India that manufactures manhole covers for New York City. The guys are running around barefoot, with molten iron inches away from their feet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/ny...26manhole.html

I believe we will be priced out of markets soon... China and India are on the brink of becoming huge players... they're starting to mature.
 
Old 01-16-2008, 11:15 PM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,701,973 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by twojciac I guess my English is not English enough for Americans?
I don't mean to be rude but your posts are all over the map... your thoughts seem to jump around and it's difficult to follow. It could be due to the language barrier... I'm sure if I tried to hop on a German message board I would do much worse.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Asheville, NC
366 posts, read 1,014,425 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by twojciac View Post
Doesn't explain why Walmart would look to move into LA and other large cities where you read about cities blocking their development. There's no denying that they've dominated rural areas, but as you admit, it's pricing that the other businesses can't compete with. Their markup is irrelevant, as they are selling product for less money due to many factors (efficiency, bulk, and buying from overseas). Your statement was that companies aren't passing this savings along to their customers, but Walmart is proof positive that lower prices are being realized... even if it is to the detriment of smaller businesses.
Walmart's prices aren't as low as people percieve them to be. On high visibility endcaps they are but often they are just as high as everyone else in most of the store.
 
Old 01-17-2008, 12:31 AM
 
Location: DFW, TX
2,935 posts, read 6,701,973 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooropa View Post
Walmart's prices aren't as low as people percieve them to be. On high visibility endcaps they are but often they are just as high as everyone else in most of the store.
On groceries they are 8% to 27% less than at Kroger, Albertsons or Safeway:

Wal-Mart Tops Grocery List With Its Supercenter Format PATRICIA CALLAHAN & ANN ZIMMERMAN / Wall Street Journal 27may03

Another interesting read:

Progressive Wal-Mart. Really.
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