Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are you apoplectic over the owners of hobby lobby exercising their religious belief by not buying certain contraceptives? As you probably know several liberals are.
I shop at the local Hobby Lobby all the time.
So...
Do I think their policy is stupid as hell just like their religious beliefs? Yeah.
Goal post shift, you did not say US Muslims , besides who says I think they Muslims are dangerous, I'm only responding your comment below. You are right on the line of becoming disingenuous. Further, why should I have a different opinion depending on what country a certain religious person comes from?
It's not a goal post shift at all.
I really don't think that Liberals are defending ISIS or terrorism... so why don't Muslims who aren't violent deserve the same respect that all other non-violent law-abiding people get?
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
Obviously there were Muslims in North America who did not keep to themselves that resulted in the deaths of 3000 people. Remember before you distort some other ****, I'm attacking your hypocritical rational for protecting Muslims and basically ostracizing Christians. I think both should be protected and respected, you don't and you gave reasons which were faulty at best and at worst religious bigotry which is typical of the liberal base, now that you've been caught you want to try and distort ****.
What is this 3000 people thing? You mean 9/11?
Yes, terrorism is bad... one of the big reasons I'm atheist is because religions discourage critical thinking. They're mostly important as history-- in the same way Greek and Roman mythology is important as history. But that doesn't mean I can't see the difference between ordinary Muslims and terrorists.
Who is 'ostracizing' Christians? Are Christians being put into concentration camps? Are you trying to say that it's not fair to have a negative opinion on someone's beliefs? Or are you just upset because people aren't being more polite to each other during online debates?
I don't believe what Muslims believe and in fact I despise a lot of things about Islam, but that doesn't mean I think they're automatically dangerous or evil. If they go their whole lives without hurting anyone, what's the problem?
If there was a merger of Islam and the State, I would be furious and do whatever I could to stop it... but there doesn't seem to be much danger of that happening.
But there IS a pretty aggressive campaign to get more Christianity into government... and THAT is what I am opposed to.
And the funny thing is none of those documents mention seperation of church and state.
[QUOTE=LS Jaun;38566209]They vast majority of people in this country identify Christians.: Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians". http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90356
If Christians or people that have Christian roots really had a problem with a separation between Church and state they would not have put it in our founding documents. If we were in any Islamic Republic there would be no Separation between Church and State: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen etc. would never allow this as their religion is part of their government. We are allowed to practice any religion we want (or none at all) in this country because of Christians, not in spite of them. [/quote]
Do I think their policy is stupid as hell just like their religious beliefs? Yeah.
I think their policy is stupid as well but I think they should be able to have it and not face such vitriol from the left because of their beliefs, which was atrocious.
I really don't think that Liberals are defending ISIS or terrorism... so why don't Muslims who aren't violent deserve the same respect that all other non-violent law-abiding people get?
What is this 3000 people thing? You mean 9/11?
Yes, terrorism is bad... one of the big reasons I'm atheist is because religions discourage critical thinking. They're mostly important as history-- in the same way Greek and Roman mythology is important as history. But that doesn't mean I can't see the difference between ordinary Muslims and terrorists.
Who is 'ostracizing' Christians? Are Christians being put into concentration camps? Are you trying to say that it's not fair to have a negative opinion on someone's beliefs? Or are you just upset because people aren't being more polite to each other during online debates?
I don't believe what Muslims believe and in fact I despise a lot of things about Islam, but that doesn't mean I think they're automatically dangerous or evil. If they go their whole lives without hurting anyone, what's the problem?
If there was a merger of Islam and the State, I would be furious and do whatever I could to stop it... but there doesn't seem to be much danger of that happening.
But there IS a pretty aggressive campaign to get more Christianity into government... and THAT is what I am opposed to.
Wow, I'm astounded at how you are trying to change the entire context of the discussion. So much so, I cant continue with you.
I respect your opinion that they are all dumb (though I do not agree) because this is America,
but in many Islamic countries if you say Islam is dumb, you may be beheaded or stoned.
That's here nor there...
I'm talking about doctrine.
If someone comes up to me and tells me that his God said that I can't eat pork chops and and I'll receive 72 virgins when I die, I'm gonna laugh his ass out of the building and ridicule him mercilessly for playing me for a fool.
But by the same token, it's equally ludicrous to tell me that a man walked on water, turned one fish into millions, and gave a blind man eyesight. And just as in the first case, I'm gonna openly and uproariously laugh you out of the room.
I think their policy is stupid as well but I think they should be able to have it and not face such vitriol from the left because of their beliefs, which was atrocious.
Just because you're allowed to have certain beliefs doesn't preclude you from criticism for having them. That's a silly assertion. Keeping employees from contraceptive options through their insurance is lame. It's indefensible.
But do they have a right to have indefensible policies? Sure. And I have a right to ridicule those policies.
" For me, it just all goes back to my belief that organized religion is one of the worst things to happen to the human race. It’s a way to justify horrific acts all in the name of (fill in name of religion). Because that’s exactly what history tells us. If there’s some kind of horrific human-caused injustice in our history, organized religion is almost always the tool used to justify it."
I guess you never heard of planned parenthood.
Keep my tax dollars women's wombs.
[/b]
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Just because you're allowed to have certain beliefs doesn't preclude you from criticism for having them. That's a silly assertion. Keeping employees from contraceptive options through their insurance is lame. It's indefensible.
But do they have a right to have indefensible policies? Sure. And I have a right to ridicule those policies.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Bin Laden's initial actions were more a political statement than a religious one.
It was an ideological one.
Quote:
The thing is, we've intensified its presence. It was there when we got there, but it's spread because we've made that possible.
It was unavoidable. There is no responsible foreign policy decision Bush could of made other than attack, invade and topple the Taliban in Afghanistan. It is clearly a national security concern to have a state sponsored terrorist attack on US soil. We had to invade Afghanistan to show the world what happens if your country endorses, supports or sponsors a terrorist attack in the US homeland. I'm telling from first hand experience our actions in Afghanistan changed several Islamic states perspective on terrorism that would not have occurred if any lesser response was used. Whether or not we went to Iraq is largely irrelevant to the broader scheme of perpetuating extremism due to intervention. Once we went to Afghanistan, those repercussion would been felt either way.
Quote:
Best example is Iraq because its so glaringly obvious. Saddam was a mad man and a cruel leader, but he kept Iraq in check. Something like ISIS would not have happened with Saddam in power. We take him out and give Iraq a 'democracy' and look what happened. What ISIS is doing makes what Saddam did look merciful.
This is skipping a part. You can not avoid or ignore the implications of our withdrawal. You can indirectly blame our intervention in Iraq as the a reason for ISIS but we both know the decision to leave plays much more important role as once we got to Iraq, we cant take it back. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Quote:
My issue is that I don't have faith in US foreign policy under Obama. Same with under Bush. It's been a disaster thus far and until someone else take office, I can't see further military interventionism as being something that will improve the situation.
I don't have confidence in any of leaders when it comes to foreign policy because they all work off of ideals and not pragmatism. Plus, as former intelligence analyst who quite familiar with the middle east, they dont know what the **** they are talking about.
Quote:
I'm not saying Islamic extremism should be left alone, I just feel other countries would be better off handling it, given we've only made the situation worse. A string of failures does not lead me to be optimistic about repeating the same actions.
One of the draw backs in our system, in my opinion is our foreign policy initiatives are hardly ever consistent or endured. You go from Bush to Obama and it creates no clear path as the objectives are so dissimilar....I dont like that Bush sent us to Iraq but I also dont like Obama leaving Iraq....this is not an advocate of longer terms but rather a indication on why our foreign policy gets messed up.
Quote:
Besides, in order for the Middle East to fully stabilize, the less foreign aid they receive, the better. They'll need to be self sufficient in order to be lasting, which is what went wrong with Iraq. Iraq was essentially dependent on the US military, which isn't an improvement. We basically replaced one dictator with another.
I dont know the answer, it may be less intervention or more...I really dont know. What I do know is, Islamic extremism is a threat to the interest of our country. Not because of the urgency of the threat but the eventuality of it.
Quote:
“The Quran-Based Authority to Govern.” According to Al Zawahiri, Al Qaeda supports the creation of an Islamic state governed solely by sharia law. Secular government or “man-made” law is considered unacceptable and deemed contrary to Islamic faith.
“The Liberation of the Homelands.” Al Zawahiri argued that reforms and free elections will not be possible for Muslims without first establishing “the freedom of the Muslim lands and their liberation from every aggressor.” He also emphasized the importance of establishing control over the Middle East’s energy
resources and described the Muslim world as “impotent and exposed to the Israeli nuclear arsenal.”
“The Liberation of the Human Being.” Al Zawahiri articulated a vision of a contractual social relationship between Muslims and their rulers that would permit people to choose and criticize their leaders but also demand that Muslims resist and overthrow rulers who violate Islamic laws and principles. He criticized hereditary government and identified a need “to specify the power of the sharia based judiciary, and insure that no one can dispose of the people’s rights, except in accordance with this judiciary.”
Quote:
In both of his December 2004 statements, for example, Bin Laden clearly stated his view that democracies, constitutional governments, and insufficiently Islamic monarchies are equally unacceptable forms of governance for Islamic societies because they empower human rulers and man-made legal systems rather than “the law of God.”38 Al Zarqawi expanded on these sentiments in a January 2005 statement that characterized democracy as a rival “religion” to Islam and criticized adherence to democratic principles such as freedom of speech and freedom of religion as un-Islamic and tantamount to apostasy punishable by death.3
AQ is kind of out of flavor but statements such as these are common among extremist. You will have to face this threat one day.
Last edited by billydaman; 02-23-2015 at 05:04 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
