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As for the whole discussion of the "pie". What pie are we even talking about? Are we talking about the collective pie of just the United States? Or are we talking about the collective pie of the world? Why are poor Americans entitled to a piece of the pie, but not poor Mexicans? Or Peruvians? Or Zimbabweans?
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And that is part of why we should insist that our minimum wage apply to all our trading partners. At least to their export workers.
It isn't about entitlement for me. It is about restructuring our world's debts.
Capitalism has failed because income disparages curtail consumerism. People can't spend what they don’t have.
The remedy is any system where people are not bamboozled into thinking you can work yourself out of poverty. You can indeed save yourself out of poverty.
Its sad and astonishing how out of touch you are. Poverty is relative and is only defined by the subjective and arbitrary perspective you put it in. I'll tell you that most western industrial nations live comfortably, almost to the point where they think they live in a failed system. It's incongruous. I do not think you truly understand suffering, destitution or lack of opportunity. Utopia does not exist and suggesting a system is failed because it does not live or match some figment of your imagination is a rather stupid argument.
Its sad and astonishing how out of touch you are. Poverty is relative and is only defined by the subjective and arbitrary perspective you put it in. I'll tell you that most western industrial nations live comfortably, almost to the point where they think they live in a failed system. It's incongruous. I do not think you truly understand suffering, destitution or lack of opportunity. Utopia does not exist and suggesting a system is failed because it does not live or match some figment of your imagination is a rather stupid argument.
I don't rebutt personal attacks,
now go write on your keyboard, "I shall not use the word stupid in debate or discouse" 1000 times.
Sorry, but "let's try enslaving people and see if it really is enslavement" isn't going to fly.
you might read; Genovese, Fitzhugh and Mary Chestnutt before you lecture me on slavery. You think Capitalism was invented out of thin air? Perhaps it was fasioned after some other system in place with some modifications.The immorality of slavery was well known and accepted and it still thrived, It wasn't until it could be replaced by another "Political Economy" that promised an even greater accumulation of wealth, that it died.
You're still posting evasions of the practical reality. But that's fine. I think the relative aspects of this part of the discussion are clear to everyone.
We are in a paradigm that is unchangeable. Money, not wealth has to flow upward. It doesn’t matter what you give the poor and lower class because it is done to encourage an upward flow of money. When I see a young gangster fanning out $100’s I think he doesn’t know that all that money is going to find its way upward into the hands of the wealthy. What he is holding is in effect not as valuable as wealth itself.
Giving lower class people too much credit is what caused that last big sucking sound that mopped up money and sent it upward. It was no different than giving them “free stuff” I see people today buying used cars with six year loans. They think someone is being nice to them but they are allowing that sucking sound to send their wealth upward. After watching so many of these documentaries on the crash I am convinced it is a game that those at the top can afford play with their economic theories.
The only purpose for redistibution is to find a new way to get it to move upward.
Even though I'm middle class and totally agree jobs need to pay more to keep up with the cost of living I also agree with what you are saying. Many in the middle and lower class are NOT smart with money. You're example of a six year note on a used car is an excellent example. True, you'll have a low payment, but within a year, two at most, you will be upside down in that car, (owing more than what its worth),. Not to mention a used vehicle is more prone to break-downs the longer you have it. I haven't had a car payment in 8 years and I don't miss it. I buy used vehicles cash around 100,000 miles drive them for a year or so then sell them out-right. A car is NOT a good investment, even though we need them. If you can't afford to pay it off in three years then you shouldn't be buying it in the first place. Same with electronics. You never buy anything electronic when its "new" for two reasons; one it will most likely have glitches, two, the manufacturer will almost always come out with a "new and updated version" and when that happens the price drops. I waited until the iPhone 5's came out until I got my first iPhone, which was an iPhone 4. That iPhone 4 cost me $20, just to cover the shipping. Two and a half years later I'm still using it. I keep getting emails from Verizon all the time that I'm eligible for an upgrade but why would I do that when my 4 is working fine and I'm not paying on the actual phone on my bill every month?! People waste a lot of $$ keeping up with what's popular. I guess its like walking a tight rope, you can give some people more money but it doesn't mean they will become more responsible with it
I have know more than one person that invested all their money and the 18 hour days into their own business and due to one mistake lost all of it. I have know a couple that did not make a mistake and lost anyway. I would not recommend, except in extraordinary circumstances, anyone start their own business from scratch. I would tell them to invest their surplus cash from what ever job they have into a diversified group of mutual funds and let the people that already know how to run a business make the money for them.
Remember, not everyone wants to be their own boss.
Agree totally GregW. The only way I would encourage anyone to start their own business is if they had the "extra" cash to do it. Meaning you weren't borrowing a dime and should the business fail you could afford to lose every penny and it wouldn't hurt you one bit financially. I know a lot of people think this is B.S., but a lot of it does come down to "luck." Some are just lucky and meant to have the success. Like you, I also know people that worked hard, made no mistakes and still lost
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