Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,083,065 times
Reputation: 3805

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
It sounds like you are talking about David Reimer. John Money, the psychologist overseeing the case, advised the parents to raise him as a girl after his penis was mutilated in a botched circumcision. David never felt he was a girl, even though he was raised in the female gender role. When his parents finally told him that he was born male, he immediately underwent surgery to restore his penis. If anything, this illustrates the fact that cosmetic surgery and indoctrination in alternate gender roles does NOT change the reality of DNA.

How is the psychology of gender dysphoria different from Body Integrity Identity Disorder? BIID sufferers claim that they can only be happy living as an amputee and have an intense desire to amputate healthy limbs they find uncomfortable to live with. BIID sufferers often pretend they are an amputee, either at home or in public.

Should the treatment for these people be to allow them to undergo surgeries to amputate healthy limbs? Is this a mental issue or is the public just "amputeeaphobes" and ignorant?

What about extreme anorexic or bulimic people who can only see themselves as horrifically obese? Should our only response to them to indulge them in their reality and encourage them to continue losing weight, since our natural response would be to get them physical and psychological help...and apparently that would make us haters and phobics, based on the logic employed by those with gender dysphoria.

Sorry, but those with gender dysphoria, cannot force others to deny reality or embrace their reality by bullying and name calling.

Undergoing cosmetic surgery and acting out opposite gender roles does NOT change your DNA and does not change reality.
DNA deals with a person's sex. Gender is a separate entity from sex.

Frankly, if people want to intentionally amputate themselves, that's their call. I wouldn't recommend it, but if they genuinely feel the need to do that, how is it my business to say they can't?

As for anorexia, that's very clearly different. Their are obvious health problems that arise with anorexia. This is not the case with gender dysphoria.

My issue with the negativity expressed towards transgenders is because it makes no sense. The overwhelming majority of people who speak ill of transgenders are the same people who claim to support individual liberty and minding their own business so long as they aren't affected by the decisions of others. It's hypocritical, and I don't much care for it. Whatever you think of transgenders, a conservative should say 'not my business, so who cares' but it is ludicrously rare to see that point of view expressed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
3,840 posts, read 4,500,332 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
I am sure that those people you pity, feel the same pity towards those whose gender dysphoria creates some alternate reality that requires them to see black as white and white as black.

Sufferers of Gender Dysphoria are a lot like a child who insists she's a cat. She crawls on all fours and demands that she be feed out of a bowl on the floor. She meows and purrs and if you don't accept her reality, then she pouts and screams "I hate you."

It is painful when people refuse to indulge the reality of the gender dysphoric, but that doesn't make those people haters or phobics or ignorant, it makes them grounded and logical.

If your expectation is that people can only believe in your reality, then you are in for a lot of disappointments in your life.
You obviously didn't read or digest the article. I have facts grounded in solid neuroscience backing me up.

What do you have? McHugh? I expect him to raise his ugly head in this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:43 PM
 
920 posts, read 631,171 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
Yeah, the human brain is MUCH less important and relevant than the piece of meat between your legs.
The brain can also be mis-wired in a way that makes you feel suicidal unless you cut off both your legs or starve yourself into a skeleton. The brain can be wired to make you think you hear voices or that you are God and can control the thoughts of other people.

Sometimes the brain malfunctions in a way that it creates a reality for the person that is not square with the reality of everyone else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:44 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,797,822 times
Reputation: 6509
People can do whatever they want, just don't ask me to pay for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:45 PM
 
13,290 posts, read 7,841,936 times
Reputation: 2141
Transgenderosity: http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.ed...T-Apr-2011.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:47 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,180,034 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
People can do whatever they want, just don't ask me to pay for it.
Sorry, under Obamacare, you do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:49 PM
 
920 posts, read 631,171 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
DNA deals with a person's sex. Gender is a separate entity from sex.

Frankly, if people want to intentionally amputate themselves, that's their call. I wouldn't recommend it, but if they genuinely feel the need to do that, how is it my business to say they can't?

As for anorexia, that's very clearly different. Their are obvious health problems that arise with anorexia. This is not the case with gender dysphoria.

My issue with the negativity expressed towards transgenders is because it makes no sense. The overwhelming majority of people who speak ill of transgenders are the same people who claim to support individual liberty and minding their own business so long as they aren't affected by the decisions of others. It's hypocritical, and I don't much care for it. Whatever you think of transgenders, a conservative should say 'not my business, so who cares' but it is ludicrously rare to see that point of view expressed.

There is negativity towards sufferers of gender dysphoria, because those sufferers REQUIRE that everyone else accept THEIR reality. How is one expected to "mind one's own business" when employers have to hold meetings when a gender dysphoric employee demands that everyone accept that Jim from last week is now "Jane" and no one better slip and use the wrong descriptor or complain with Jim/Jane uses the ladies room (standing up). Yeah, right. The liberties of a gender dysphoria sufferer ends where my liberty begins and requiring me to comply with that reality makes it "my business."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:56 PM
 
920 posts, read 631,171 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynternight View Post
You obviously didn't read or digest the article. I have facts grounded in solid neuroscience backing me up.

What do you have? McHugh? I expect him to raise his ugly head in this thread.
I'm sure you were. You prefer the viewpoint of Psychologist John Money, an advocate of "affectionate pedophilia" over the head of the Psychiatric Dept. at John's Hopkins Hospital.

Not surprised that you target the doctor and not his solid neuroscience and hands on experience which supports the fact that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and not a 'mis-wired" brain that can be fixed through cosmetic surgery and playing at opposite gender roles.

A 2011 study that found that suicide rates and mental institutionalization of people who underwent sex reassignment is still astonishingly higher than non-gender dysphoric individuals. Supporting McHugh's position and further proving that cosmetic surgery and hormones don't change reality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,321,678 times
Reputation: 12713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynternight View Post
16 Myths About Gender Confirmation Surgery

Sadly the people who need to read this the most are the ones who will likely ignore it but here's a few very powerful quotes:

2. ‘These people need therapy, not surgery.’

I have been over this before. They tried for decades to change people’s gender identities, the same way they tried to change sexual orientation. Drugs. Therapy. Electroshock therapy. Lobotomies. Institutionalization.
It doesn’t work.

11. ‘I’m actually a feline trapped in a human’s body. Can I get can surgery to make me a cat?’

Also known as the “I think I’m funny, but I’m not” answer. Generally used by guys who watch South Park.
When people use this argument, they assume that transgender people are mentally ill (they’re not), assume it’s a delusion that can be cured (wrong), and ignores one key fact:
People can naturally be mentally hardwired to identify as male or female. Sometimes the wiring and the equipment don’t synch up during development.
We have 40-plus years of neuroscience research basically telling us gender identity and body image are written early on in development, and sometimes they don’t match.
People, however, do not naturally identify as a cat or other non-human animal.

15. ‘It doesn’t change your DNA,’

This is irrelevant. There are lots of intersex people whose identities vary from their chromosomes.
The relevant part of the discussion is whether GCS is medically necessary (it is in the opinion of everyone who matters) and if it significantly improves quality of life (it does).
If you feel so strongly about it and it's that important then just be who you want to be, nobody really cares.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-24-2015, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
3,840 posts, read 4,500,332 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
I'm sure you were. You prefer the viewpoint of Psychologist John Money, an advocate of "affectionate pedophilia" over the head of the Psychiatric Dept. at John's Hopkins Hospital.

Not surprised that you target the doctor and not his solid neuroscience and hands on experience which supports the fact that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder and not a 'mis-wired" brain that can be fixed through cosmetic surgery and playing at opposite gender roles.

A 2011 study that found that suicide rates and mental institutionalization of people who underwent sex reassignment is still astonishingly higher than non-gender dysphoric individuals. Supporting McHugh's position and further proving that cosmetic surgery and hormones don't change reality.
Actually I do not support John Money but thank you for telling me I do. I will also note that McHugh's position on Gender Dysphoria came from him being a very conservative Catholic and not sound science and his research has been debunked over and over.

Suicide rates pre-transition are as high as 41%, post-transition it drops to 1.6% or roughly equal to the general population.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:31 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top