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Im reading the atfs book. the actual text has been posted several times in previous posts in this thread
Rub of the mill .223 target ammo can penetrate level ii armor.
More than likely not in a short handgun configuration. It may not possess the same capability as M855, however that would be something to investigate. Do you have any source of evidence? I read the ATF report and their findings were pretty damned detailed.
You're stating the same thing. I'm presenting what was added to the USC because of the passage of the LEO Protection Act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
My thoughts and conclusions on the matter are that the original LEOPA bill signed by Reagan was not very well thought out, as are many spontaneous gun prohibitions. They are rushed into law by an upwelling of emotion. Usually over some incident.
When the law was envisioned, it was to protect the police wearing Level 2 body armor.
Manufacturers were producing special rounds for pistols that defeated vests. Everybody wanted some. Police Depts. freaked.
Nobody envisioned at the time that someone would create a pistol out of a AKM or an AK74, or an AR15. and work around the law. Never underestimate a kitchen table machinist.
As soon as these products became available on the market as pistols, accordingly the pistols, or the ammunition they used were illegal when used together, according to the letter of the law. Which is something BATFE is very thorough about.
To a degree, we screwed ourselves, up to a point. It would have been better to declare pistols in those rifle calibers as SBRs than ban the ammo. Then we'd still have the ammo in all those calibers that have been banned, plus we'd have AR pistols as tax stamped, SBRs. But the NRA, and all the rabid 2nd people would have screamed bloody, constitutional murder. Well ammo was the easy way for BATFE to enforce the law, which a republican congress passed, I might add, instead of having to fight the NRA.
The only reason my dog is in this thread is because the usual suspects are trying to pin the whole mess on the President. I know the laws, I know the history and I know BATFE and President Obama has nothing to do with it.
So, here we are.
Everything you said is fine, except for one small point. BATFE do not have any grounds to ban M855, sure the SBR workaround by making a pistol out of a rifle is coming home to bite us in the hindquarters. However that said if this is permitted to move forwards without the authority of law, then BATFE will do it again (and they're already well known for skating the thin line in a number of areas). If BATFE want M855 banned because they consider it AP, that's fine, but they need to ensure that they alter the law so that they have the ability to do so, and that is not in their hands, but the hands of Congress.
That's the fear- that the law was written to encompass not written as to specifically identify. It is going to be interesting to see how the interpretation is made.
In any event, one would hope the sportsmans groups and the NRA might make a thoughtful case to fight it. However I'm kinda jaded these days on just whose interests are put first- us shooters or industry. Depending on how this plays out we could see another sustained price gouging on ammo.
I really hate to sound that way, but I do have some doubts.
The fascist in chief has threatened new "executive actions" (why not- there is no republican opposition to anything he does) to ban .223 bullets.
Interestingly, beyond the .22, .223 is the most common rifle cartridge in the US. The main focus is on ballistic tip bullets, which are widely used by target shooters.
Meanwhile, the republicans stand by and do nothing, as usual.
It's actually just implementation of a 1968 law about armor piercing ammunition. It only affect full metal jacket ammunition which is not very useful for hunting.
It's actually just implementation of a 1968 law about armor piercing ammunition. It only affect full metal jacket ammunition which is not very useful for hunting.
It's actually just implementation of a 1968 law about armor piercing ammunition. It only affect full metal jacket ammunition which is not very useful for hunting.
Then why did it take them so long to get around to doing this? AR-15 pistols have been on the market since the 1990s. M855 has been on the market about as long. Could it be that we are winding down the wars and the military will dump their surplus M855 on the market like they have done in the past? Is the current regime afraid of having an extra billion rounds of ammo being sold at cut-rate prices?
That all depends on whose book are you reading. The way I understand it MilSpec for the ammo requires it penetrate 1/8" thick steel at X meters (I think 600). In the military definition this is not 'armor piercing', it's anti-personnel.
However when ATF views it, the round (M855) is capable of defeating class II protective armor, and now can be used in a commercially available handgun. The combination of those two makes the M855 round potentially illegal according to the Law. MilSpec does not usurp the Law.
But AR-15 pistols have been around for almost 20 years.
So what will the dictator Obama decide that he doesn't like next? in the name of protecting us?
I think it should be cell phones, they hurt and kill more people than AR15's and the .223 do.
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