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Old 03-08-2015, 12:16 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,780 posts, read 44,594,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
Many people who take excellent care of themselves get illnesses, or injuries, the human body is fallible.
That's what catastrophic insurance is for. That's what we've been trying to tell all you TAKERS.
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Old 03-08-2015, 12:51 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,184,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That's what catastrophic insurance is for. That's what we've been trying to tell all you TAKERS.
The self employed people who were denied insurance, including catastrophic plans are not takers. Legislaters had decades to come up with solutions, but chose to do nothing. Where is the plan ready to go after repeal? The one plan I read that was proposed by republicans was quietly abandoned when people realized it required tax changes to employment insurance.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:03 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,772,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
The self employed people who were denied insurance, including catastrophic plans are not takers. Legislaters had decades to come up with solutions, but chose to do nothing. Where is the plan ready to go after repeal? The one plan I read that was proposed by republicans was quietly abandoned when people realized it required tax changes to employment insurance.
There are still plans for self employed.

Guy who owned Nissan dealership. He was paying $3000/month for him and his wife with a $10k deductible.

He and his wife are extemely high risk.

He's had heart surgery. Obese. Sleep apnea. Peripheral vascular diseAae and prostate cancer. His wife had breast cancer.

This is in Florida.

There is a price to pay of course.

Obviously there are people who denied. But how many people on the individual market do u think about truly affected? Not many. I can guarantee you that. Talking like 1 million people at most. That chump stat compared to the havoc the law has wrecked on other people.

Oh by the way. Acne and depression are for the most part not life threatening conditions where a denial is not "life and death" as liberals claim for those denied health insurance.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:11 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,184,004 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
There are still plans for self employed.

Guy who owned Nissan dealership. He was paying $3000/month for him and his wife with a $10k deductible.

He and his wife are extemely high risk.

He's had heart surgery. Obese. Sleep apnea. Peripheral vascular diseAae and prostate cancer. His wife had breast cancer.

This is in Florida.

There is a price to pay of course.

Obviously there are people who denied. But how many people on the individual market do u think about truly affected? Not many. I can guarantee you that. Talking like 1 million people at most. That chump stat compared to the havoc the law has wrecked on other people.

Oh by the way. Acne and depression are for the most part not life threatening conditions where a denial is "life and death" as liberals claim for those denied health insurance.
Very few people can even come up with 3K/mo (36K/yr, most don't even make that after tax) let alone live, AND pay for health insurance. In some states that person would still be waiting up to 2 years for that coverage. Those MILLIONS of people matter, and legislators had decades to come up with a solution. 1st world countries don't leave millions out of the health care system. Even many 3rd world countries don't leave people with no care, so insurance companies can make the most money possible.

No one said acne, or depression are life threatening, but when insurance is denied, it's denied. I was raised to be responsible and that means being insured. Any human being can become sick or ill, and needs to be insured. For others with more serious conditions it was life and death.

Last edited by detshen; 03-08-2015 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:17 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,772,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
Very few people can even come up with 3K/mo. Those MILLIONS of people matter, and legislators had decades to come up with a solution. Even most 3rd world countries don't leave people with no care, so insurance companies can make the most money possible.

No one said acne, or depression are life threatening, but when insurance is denied, it's denied. I was raised to be responsible and that means being insured. Any human being can become sick or ill, and needs to be insured. For others with more serious conditions it was life and death.
It's not more than 1-2 million. Less than 1% of the population. And liberals tried to jacked and group those with govt health insurance and employer health insirance saying 20-30 million have pre existing conditions and could "die" if they are denied insirance.

Again it's onlu the individual market. And less than 1-2 million with pre exisiting. And most won't "die" without insirance.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:24 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,184,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
It's not more than 1-2 million. Less than 1% of the population. And liberals tried to jacked and group those with govt health insurance and employer health insirance saying 20-30 million have pre existing conditions and could "die" if they are denied insirance.

Again it's onlu the individual market. And less than 1-2 million with pre exisiting. And most won't "die" without insirance.
Please post a quote when someone said 20-30 million could die w/o health insurance.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:35 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,772,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
Please post a quote when someone said 20-30 million could die w/o health insurance.
Your own government misleads the public. Even the official HHS website throws out a ridiculous 130 million with pre exisiting condition could be "denied insurance". It's just a flat out lie by the Obama administration.

At Risk: Pre-Existing Conditions Could Affect 1 in 2 Americans: 129 Million People Could Be Denied Affordable Coverage Without Health Reform

Lies after lies by the left wing official Obama HHS website.

Since those on Medicare and those employer sponsored care aren't denied coverage. And only maybe 10% of the roughly 15 million on the individual market are affected.
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Old 03-08-2015, 01:48 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,184,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
Your own government misleads the public. Even the official HHS website throws out a ridiculous 130 million with pre exisiting condition could be "denied insurance". It's just a flat out lie by the Obama administration.

At Risk: Pre-Existing Conditions Could Affect 1 in 2 Americans: 129 Million People Could Be Denied Affordable Coverage Without Health Reform

Lies after lies by the left wing official Obama HHS website.

Since those on Medicare and those employer sponsored care aren't denied coverage. And only maybe 10% of the roughly 15 million on the individual market are affected.
That doesn't say ALL of those people are going to be denied, and DIE. It states that those people have conditions that limit the ability to obtain affordable health insurance if they become self-employed, take a job with a company that does not offer coverage, or experience a change in life circumstance, such as divorce, retirement, or moving to a different state. That's true, anyone can find themselves in that situation. Is it propaganda, yes. The same way you minimize MILLIONS of people, and act like they don't matter because it suits your agenda.

Those MILLIONS of people matter, and legislators had decades to come up with a solution. 1st world countries don't leave millions out of the health care system. Even many 3rd world countries don't leave people with no care, so insurance companies can make the most money possible.
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,400,602 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
That doesn't say ALL of those people are going to be denied, and DIE. It states that those people have conditions that limit the ability to obtain affordable health insurance if they become self-employed, take a job with a company that does not offer coverage, or experience a change in life circumstance, such as divorce, retirement, or moving to a different state. That's true, anyone can find themselves in that situation. Is it propaganda, yes. The same way you minimize MILLIONS of people, and act like they don't matter because it suits your agenda.

Those MILLIONS of people matter, and legislators had decades to come up with a solution. 1st world countries don't leave millions out of the health care system. Even many 3rd world countries don't leave people with no care, so insurance companies can make the most money possible.

We don't leave people without care. We leave them without insurence. The reason the are uninsured is because insurance is a financial contraxt to spread risk over a large pool of premium paying individuals who recognize the danger of NOT having insurance.

What we have now is a quasi-prepaid account via Medicare and subsidized welfare for everyone else, including those on employer coverage.

To have national health like those other countries the 47% will have to start contributing their fair share. The change will slowly ripple through the economy pulling money from other sectors. It's simple choice: what is more important - health or iPhones and other quality of life items they don't have in all those other countries.
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:53 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,184,004 times
Reputation: 6998
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
We don't leave people without care. We leave them without insurence. The reason the are uninsured is because insurance is a financial contraxt to spread risk over a large pool of premium paying individuals who recognize the danger of NOT having insurance.

What we have now is a quasi-prepaid account via Medicare and subsidized welfare for everyone else, including those on employer coverage.

To have national health like those other countries the 47% will have to start contributing their fair share. The change will slowly ripple through the economy pulling money from other sectors. It's simple choice: what is more important - health or iPhones and other quality of life items they don't have in all those other countries.
The health insurance industry is so tied to health care in this country that most people w/o insurance are left without options for care. Insurance does tend to equal care in this country. Rates for services are have been inflated to unaffordable levels for those w/o insurance.

I believe some form of universal coverage is necessary in this country. It's good for people, AND, it's good for business. I agree everyone will have to pay for it, but we do have to realize those countries without a 47% don't just have universal health coverage, they also have higher minimum wages, many other subsidized benefits such as child care, education, etc. that leave them better able to afford higher taxes. We would have to get truly realistic about the state of our economy, and how to pay for it.

Other countries use well regulated health insurance, and individual mandates to provide universal coverage that people have to pay for. Options could be explored, but it has become such partisan mess that I don't see any changes coming until the rising health insurance, and rising medical care cost leaves many more affected.
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