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Old 03-05-2015, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,322,930 times
Reputation: 3863

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
How many times do I have to tell you that I already did. I am not going to copy/paste just for you. Read the thread and come back with an answer to the points I raised.
Perhaps you should begin by actually answering questions and valid points raised by others? Hypocrisy is not a great thing to add to the list of your deficiencies on display here.

My questions (which you have avoided addressing) were to:

1. ask you to present actual data and some form of scientific proof that homosexuality was a choice, since you made that assertion in your first post by saying there was abundant evidence that this was the case

and

2. Why on earth does it matter one bit in any form or fashion whether or not homosexuality IS a choice?

How much of an invasive, intrusive, nanny-state government do you want exactly? That choice is outlawed because there are people who, in your intolerance and bigotry, you find distasteful or frightening or personally offensive?

Who cares what your opinion is?

What difference does it make whether homosexuality is a choice or not?

Why should anyone take seriously anything you have to say on any subject when you can't respond to or defend any of the pure BS you spout here?

 
Old 03-05-2015, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,190 posts, read 5,322,930 times
Reputation: 3863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town FFX View Post
What about the "pray the gay away" leader that is now happily married to his male partner?

Former leader of 'gay cure' group marries male partner Larry McQueen | Metro News
Oh no, that won't work. A piece written by an (allegedly) former homosexual which indicates that homosexuality is a disease that can be treated and reversed is, according to that poster, "proof."

But what you speak of here? It couldn't possibly carry any weight because it does not jibe with the OP's opinion.

Blind hypocrisy, pure and simple.
 
Old 03-05-2015, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,542 posts, read 4,083,065 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
I find you to be a very unpleasant person. I understand this issue is very sensitive to you given that you are homosexual, but being sensitive does not give you the right to lie and defame other posters. I have not read anything of value from you and you pretend to ignore the articulate arguments, none of which has been refuted, that I provided.

There is something wrong with homosexuality socially, biologically, psychologically, which is why the vast majority of humanity since the dawn of times has rejected it including several posters on this forum. The aim of this thread was to provide concrete examples of former homosexuals who now reject the lifestyle, are founding families of their own and wish to tell other young men and women that it is possible to come back from it.

Later in the thread I have explained how homosexuality even if it was genetic, would still be a defect from a biological standpoint. There is really no way out for LGBT people : no matter how you twist it, since homosexuality contradicts the very nature of human beings, there will never be a reassuring justification for it.
None of your arguments have been refuted? Right...

So, let's dig in. It's wrong socially, biologically, and psychologically. That's your claim, and it's just a claim. It's not an argument, since arguments require evidence. You have none. Plus you're dealing with something that is subjective in nature; morality.

Socially.
The common understanding of a social wrong is generally what we call a crime. Since society is constructed by people, it exists only within the realm of human understanding. So in America, a country founded on liberalism, crimes tend to be things that do wrong onto others and/or step on the rights of others. So, murder or theft. Homosexuality does not do this. It's a personal endeavor, rather you think of it as a choice or as being genetic. It does no harm onto anyone else, and cannot be considered a social wrong.

Biologically
How exactly does one define 'biologically wrong.' Biology is a field of science; it's not a moral study. I assume what you're getting as is that in order to reproduce, you need opposite sexes. Which is true. But does having homosexual sex actually produce a wrong? See, if we look at biological rightness as simply being the act of populating one's species, then the opposite must be what constitutes as wrong; the depopulation of one's species. Depopulation would of course we intentional killing of members of our own species, so there's overlap of a social wrong. But homosexuality is neither. It neither populates nor depopulates. This makes it a biologically neutral action.

Psychologicaly
This one is much harder to argue without you explaining it, but I'll do my best. I assume you mean that homosexuals have a higher likelihood of suffering mental illness and higher suicide rates. Which is true. But you are missing a key piece to this argument; the link. There is no evidence for you to say being gay means you are more likely to commit suicide. Nothing biologically or chemically support this. But what we do have is studies in social science: factors that can lead up to suicide or mental illness tend to be external, not internal. To keep it short, suffering psychological abuse is what leads to increased chance of suicide. What's important to note is that being gay does not require one to be psychologically abused, since the blame in a situation of abuse must fall on the abuser. The abusers is making a concise choice to do harm to another person. So in fact, homosexuality is not a psychological wrong, but bullying them is. So, it seems YOU are committing the wrong in this area.

So, there you have it. Arguments against yours that use evidence and reason. I look forward to your response.

I should also like to address you're 'justification' point. You claim there's no justification for homosexuality and say it's backed up with biology. But what justification exists to punish homosexuality? As I said in my biology argument, unless the act is directly detrimental to a species, it can't really be considered a biological wrong. And since my 'moral biology' is centered around the survival and sustaining of a population, then causing harm to that population is wrong. This ties into my psychological argument; where intentionally causing inflicting psychological abuse on someone can lead them to take their own life. In this scenario, both the abuser and the victim have committed a biological wrong since they have driven one of their own to take the life of a member of their species. Again, this puts you in the morally wrong spot, not the homosexual.

Last edited by TheDusty; 03-05-2015 at 02:59 PM..
 
Old 03-05-2015, 02:57 PM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,679,221 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
I have the right to not tolerate all types of behaviors. Period.
Actually not true. You have the right to not appreciate all types of behaviors, but you do not have the absolute right to practice intolerance, i.e., in provision of a public accommodation.

And of course your practice of intolerance would indeed be hateful, specifically. Even if you cannot bring yourself to admit it.
 
Old 03-05-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
This video does not mention at any time that any gene was found. You must be confused.
No, I'm not confused....I just forgot to include the appropriate link...

A study of gay men in the US has found fresh evidence that male sexual orientation is influenced by genes. Scientists tested the DNA of 400 gay men and found that genes on at least two chromosomes affected whether a man was gay or straight. Male sexual orientation influenced by genes, study shows | Science | The Guardian
 
Old 03-05-2015, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supachai View Post
Considering that the vast majority of gay people don't procreate, it's a dumb idea to claim that being gay is genetic. If it was then it would have dwindled away over time, since gay people don't usually have offspring to pass their genes onto.
If your statement was true then how do you explain that homosexuality is common throughout the animal kingdom? List of animals displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 03-05-2015, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think a more politically correct term is "recovering homosexuals".
There are no recovering homosexuals, as there is nothing to recover from.
 
Old 03-05-2015, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
All questions have been answered and none of the answers have received a valid response. Not from you,not from anyone else.
Not a response that you are willing to believe....Ignoring evidence is called willful denial.
 
Old 03-05-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
3,530 posts, read 4,156,074 times
Reputation: 2919
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
None of your arguments have been refuted? Right...

So, let's dig in. It's wrong socially, biologically, and psychologically. That's your claim, and it's just a claim. It's not an argument, since arguments require evidence. You have none. Plus you're dealing with something that is subjective in nature; morality.

Socially.
The common understanding of a social wrong is generally what we call a crime. Since society is constructed by people, it exists only within the realm of human understanding. So in America, a country founded on liberalism, crimes tend to be things that do wrong onto others and/or step on the rights of others. So, murder or theft. Homosexuality does not do this. It's a personal endeavor, rather you think of it as a choice or as being genetic. It does no harm onto anyone else, and cannot be considered a social wrong.

Biologically
How exactly does one define 'biologically wrong.' Biology is a field of science; it's not a moral study. I assume what you're getting as is that in order to reproduce, you need opposite sexes. Which is true. But does having homosexual sex actually produce a wrong? See, if we look at biological rightness as simply being the act of populating one's species, then the opposite must be what constitutes as wrong; the depopulation of one's species. Depopulation would of course we intentional killing of members of our own species, so there's overlap of a social wrong. But homosexuality is neither. It neither populates nor depopulates. This makes it a biologically neutral action.

Psychologicaly
This one is much harder to argue without you explaining it, but I'll do my best. I assume you mean that homosexuals have a higher likelihood of suffering mental illness and higher suicide rates. Which is true. But you are missing a key piece to this argument; the link. There is no evidence for you to say being gay means you are more likely to commit suicide. Nothing biologically or chemically support this. But what we do have is studies in social science: factors that can lead up to suicide or mental illness tend to be external, not internal. To keep it short, suffering psychological abuse is what leads to increased chance of suicide. What's important to note is that being gay does not require one to be psychologically abused, since the blame in a situation of abuse must fall on the abuser. The abusers is making a concise choice to do harm to another person. So in fact, homosexuality is not a psychological wrong, but bullying them is. So, it seems YOU are committing the wrong in this area.

So, there you have it. Arguments against yours that use evidence and reason. I look forward to your response.

I should also like to address you're 'justification' point. You claim there's no justification for homosexuality and say it's backed up with biology. But what justification exists to punish homosexuality? As I said in my biology argument, unless the act is directly detrimental to a species, it can't really be considered a biological wrong. And since my 'moral biology' is centered around the survival and sustaining of a population, then causing harm to that population is wrong. This ties into my psychological argument; where intentionally causing inflicting psychological abuse on someone can lead them to take their own life. In this scenario, both the abuser and the victim have committed a biological wrong since they have driven one of their own to take the life of a member of their species. Again, this puts you in the morally wrong spot, not the homosexual.
I can't rep you anymore. Excellent post!
 
Old 03-05-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,513 posts, read 37,057,177 times
Reputation: 13985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
You must re read the discussion, and his post as well. I have provided the most concise and detailed arguments in this discussion.



Indeed.
Really? I don't agree.
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