Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-01-2008, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,691,044 times
Reputation: 6745

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by my54ford It's your money and you are free to waste it as you wish, as long as you do not break any laws (like purchasing illegal stuff).

BTW it is my opinion that you are just afraid that God does not exist, otherwise you would have put your faith in Him and not earthly technology.
Yea well you know what the say about opinions...............Besides It is my money! Why should I give it to non-hackers who want to be on the dole.The only people that need my support put their feet under my kitchen table
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-01-2008, 07:22 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,198,959 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by my54ford
Quote:
Yea well you know what the say about opinions
I wasn't sure if it was clear that you would see it as my opinion.
I could have been wrong so I clearly stated that it was just my opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 07:33 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,741,930 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlythetruth View Post
You really need to read the book and then you would have a better understanding about what the "FACISIM" part really means and how the Liberals have aborted it to mean from the right. and the NOLAN chart is not very accurate, because you have to believe that FASCIST are only from the Right, which in todays USA is completely FALSE, because the MEDIA is controlled by the Liberals and the LIBERALS have been suppressing opposing views for years. To be a True fascist you must control to free flow of information, or the suppression there of and in todays America the LIBERALS HAVE CONTROLLED THE MEDIA FOR DECADES. So how can the right be Fascist?

all one has to do is to look at the NYT, it's completely as far Left Liberal as one could get and they are FASCIST Jsut look at your own description " rabid, belligerent nationalism, suppression of opposing views, and strong government-corporation ties"
THIS IS THE NEW YORK TIMES TO A T. Fascist Means the Government controls the media and are in lock step with the corporations and for years this has come from the LIBERALS AS WELL, to think anything less is going through life with BLINDERS ON. The true FASCIST IN TODAYS WORLD IS THE DEMOCRAPS the LIBERALS.

Read the Book and become educated to what is really happening in todays world and who is really the FASCIST

But I do agree that the NOLAN chart is more correct then the simple left right axis
If you have those views, then perhaps your views are colored by the glasses you are wearing. The New York Times has been the newspaper of record for the past 96 years. While it does have some liberal OP-ED writers, the majority of the newspaper is not liberal.

If the media were controlled by the left, then very little of what Bush has "accomplished" in the past 8 years would have been achievable. The fact that little scrutiny occurred about this administration until very recently belies that point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 07:36 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,919,403 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoAdrian View Post
Facts are facts. Fascism is based on things like rabid, belligerent nationalism, supression of opposing views, and strong government-corporation ties. These things grow out of conservatism, not liberalism. And I'm not making excuses for liberalism, whose socialist-communist extremes I find just as deplorable.

The problem comes, I think, from seeing politics in terms of the old right-left axis. Have you seen the Nolan Chart? It's not perfect, but it's a lot more useful than the right-left spectrum. It lets you see that as people advocate less freedom -- whether it's personal or economic freedom -- they start to end up in exactly the same place, no matter what their starting point was. So "right-wing" fascists and "left-wing" communists end up in the same "statist" quadrant.

Nolan Chart (http://www.neo-libertarian.com/nolan.html - broken link)
Yes, but liberalism (obviously not the root of the word or the original party to which it is coined) could lead to Fascism and I think often mirrors the behaviors of such. Replace nationalism with a fanatical adherence to a Utopian ideal. It is not that they hold to a certain government, but an ideal to which they attempt to make the government be.

Through that pursuit of that ideal, the people act in rabid fashion of opposition to anyone who disagrees with their ideal and suppress those opposing views through their strong arm of power (the government when they control it) all the while growing that power through corporate ties that submit or deal with that governmental power. Liberal ideals don't hate corporations, they merely hate corporations they don't control.

There are some similarities there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 08:18 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,098,045 times
Reputation: 5941
LIBERAL Fascism??? NO!

ALL these points are firm beliefs, qualities of CONSERVATIVES!!! Read them...



14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).
Does any of this sound familiar? As America sinks deeper and deeper into corporate greed will this country continue to be a democracy by the people and for the people or will it be ruled by the few? Will the trinity of money, power and greed over come one of the greatest countries in the world? Only we, the people, can keep it free. SPEAK OUT AND LET YOUR THOUGHTS BE KNOWN...ONLY BY SILENCE WILL WE BE DEFEATED!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 10:22 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,944 posts, read 5,569,683 times
Reputation: 2606
Talking Liberal facisim!!

A perfect example of Orwellian double-speak.

Convincing to the mentally challenged and willfully ignorant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 10:22 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,919,403 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
LIBERAL Fascism??? NO!

ALL these points are firm beliefs, qualities of CONSERVATIVES!!! Read them...



14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).
Does any of this sound familiar? As America sinks deeper and deeper into corporate greed will this country continue to be a democracy by the people and for the people or will it be ruled by the few? Will the trinity of money, power and greed over come one of the greatest countries in the world? Only we, the people, can keep it free. SPEAK OUT AND LET YOUR THOUGHTS BE KNOWN...ONLY BY SILENCE WILL WE BE DEFEATED!
I would respond to each point and comment if it wasn't filled with such tin foil kooky slander and ignorance. Seriously, you believe this garbage you are spewing? I see a bunch of out of context claims, failure to recognize the double standards from its own position and straight out slander.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 10:35 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,741,930 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post

Through that pursuit of that ideal, the people act in rabid fashion of opposition to anyone who disagrees with their ideal and suppress those opposing views through their strong arm of power (the government when they control it) all the while growing that power through corporate ties that submit or deal with that governmental power.
Liberals don't have the monopoly on zeal by any means. We have seen our government get much closer to fascism (an alignment of gov't with big business), in the last six years than in any time in recent history.

Last edited by roseba; 03-01-2008 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: DELETED THE REST because it was said by a previous poster
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2008, 10:46 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,098,045 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
I would respond to each point and comment if it wasn't filled with such tin foil kooky slander and ignorance. Seriously, you believe this garbage you are spewing? I see a bunch of out of context claims, failure to recognize the double standards from its own position and straight out slander.

Well, I have never gotten any rebuttals from conservatives wherever I have posted this but at least you come up with an excuse.


For charges of slander please contact Dr. Britt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:21 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top