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Old 01-13-2008, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,771,932 times
Reputation: 1198

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Eh, this argument is a non-sequiter. You are saying that it is inconsistant for us to denounce multiculturalism while at the same time promoting our own culture elsewhere?

Um...naturally...we denounce multiculturalism for many reasons, one of them being that American culture is superior to others. So why does it not make sense that we should also want to see our culture, or at least elements of it, spread to other areas with arguably inferior cultures?

I don't find that inconsistant in the least. Arrogant, perhaps (and rightly so, if you ask me), but not inconsistant.
Yes very arrogant. Also very unrealistic. "Promoting" our culture via our military...i.e. occupation and empire building...is a fool's errand that history shows us just does not work. Presumably because the inhabitants of that country may not share the view that we are superior to them, as ridiculous as that may seem to us.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
3,770 posts, read 7,516,892 times
Reputation: 2118
Um, did anyone other than Shona actually read the article? An article about a Seattle High School that has students from a variety of countries spawns posts about amputating hands? Where in the world did it reference the "oppressive western society"?

Talk about looking for a fight and a classic example of derailing a thread.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Wahiawa,Hi
110 posts, read 57,853 times
Reputation: 26
I love the sound of the opposite of multiculturalism which is "Enculturated American".
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:00 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,508,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miker2069 View Post
Um, did anyone other than Shona actually read the article?

Talk about looking for a fight and a classic example of derailing a thread.
Well, by your comments, I assume YOU did...I, I'm afraid, didn't. I have a very poor history of opening up 'attachments' and mostly try to avoid the 'meltdowns' this leads to. I confess I based my 'rant' largely on my interpolation of OTHERS' comments....GUILTY !!

However, I seldom miss a chance to denounce TRUE multiculturalism, which I regard as a very dangerous path to follow (notice I said TRUE muticulturalism, not the 'fun' stuff that's normally meant)...
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: SE Florida
9,367 posts, read 25,131,120 times
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The story behind the link says nothing about changing laws or making everyone the same. The school looks great.

That whole "melting pot" thing.... I have always perceived it as a stew- lots of different ingredients making the whole better than the individual ingredients alone. That is the way I see multiculturalism.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:23 PM
 
269 posts, read 540,849 times
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All that time spent on "peer diversity training" could probably be better-spent learning, say, algebra, no?

But good for them for making the best of what has elsewhere been a difficult situation.
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Old 01-24-2008, 05:42 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,508,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIF View Post
The story behind the link says nothing about changing laws or making everyone the same. The school looks great.

That whole "melting pot" thing.... I have always perceived it as a stew- lots of different ingredients making the whole better than the individual ingredients alone. That is the way I see multiculturalism.
Your 'take' is OK, and is shared (I suspect) by many. It's the "normal" way we have traditionally defined multiculturalism--and, the way you define it, who in their right mind could object? I'm thinking more "out there", I guess. To ME, what you're describing, is 'cultural variations and nuances bounded IN THE FRAMEWORK of our laws, etc". Remember, much of the 'culture' out there in the 'big world' does NOT fit into 'our' laws. What happens when the pressure increases to include THOSE behaviors in 'our' culture?

Your 'stew' analogy is fine and dandy......it assumes that everyone will want to contribute wholesome, generally acceptable ingredients into a generally-pleasing 'stew' that everyone can enjoy. But your analogy does NOT address what happens when someone wants to include chocolate syrup----or dill pickles---or vanilla ice cream---or grapefruits--into the 'stew'---At THAT point, most of the 'stew-makers', of course, would OBJECT.(and understandably so).. So how do we 'draw the line', continue to make our 'cultural stew', and yet insure that it remains somewhat recognizable, As still BEING a palatable stew, and not some kind of a revolting mess? That's my point....where to draw the line...obviously, it MUST be drawn somewhere.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:56 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 1,706,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Yes very arrogant. Also very unrealistic. "Promoting" our culture via our military...i.e. occupation and empire building...is a fool's errand that history shows us just does not work. Presumably because the inhabitants of that country may not share the view that we are superior to them, as ridiculous as that may seem to us.
Well, yeah, that is kind of the problem. However, it's what we did in Germany and Japan, so it's not without historical precedence. Yes, this is a different enemy, but there are no inherent reasons that it wouldn't work, eventually, with Iraqis. They are not any less intelligent or desirous of freedom than your average Japanese or German. Let's not forget how eagerly they voted as soon as they had the opportunity, even at great personal risk.

Of course, this is also one of those flaws of conservatism...the idea that all humans really would prefer freedom over slavery.
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:27 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,508,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Of course, this is also one of those flaws of conservatism...the idea that all humans really would prefer freedom over slavery.
I think this is a profound point..the very human tendency for a new 'convert' to want to convert everybody else. It happens when one 'discovers' a new movie--or a new reataurant---a new church---or a new vacation spot. Suddenly, 'he' just KNOWS that everyone would LOVE to hear about it--they've just been waiting to be 'indoctrinated'. He KNOWS they'll 'thank him' for enlightening them....

200 years ago, we "discovered' democracy (at least, SOME Americans were eligible)....then we "swore off" slavery....at some later date, we decided NOT to exterminate the remaining Indians--to allow women to vote--and a few decades ago, we "discovered" civil rights for ALL races.

Now, we're on FIRE to 'civilize" the rest of the world--to "teach" modern civilization to societies thousands of years old. We're going to spread democracy, civil rights, affirmative action, racial and religious tolerance, women's rights, environmental consciousness, and low-calorie eating habits to the whole benighted WORLD!! Like it or not, it's for their OWN GOOD, and someday, they'll thank us for it. I just shudder to think what "they" might have done, had "we" not come along when we did (now) to "recue" them from themselves. (Then we WONDER why we occasionally get 'laughed at')....(?)
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:11 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,931,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkel25 View Post
Promoting multiculturalism is the opposite of the "melting pot" idea.
More of like its second cousin. The customs of multiculturalism can be seen in the melting pot theorem too. why do you think Americans use pinatas now?
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