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Is there a difference between a "Treaty" and an "Agreement"? My understanding is the Senate will and does have the last word in ratifying a Treaty but not agreements in which the Obama administration is working on with Iran, not a treaty.
Yes. A treaty is binding on behalf of the country. And agreement that is only agreed to by the President is only binding until Congress or the next President decides to address it and change it.
That is what the value is of having a treaty. Many Obama supporters want to believe that any agreement that he gets into has the same authority and continuity as a treaty, but it is not so. If it was the same thing, then why even bothering to have a separate thing such as a treaty?
The reason that the left is so primally pissed off here is that they know that regardless of what they think about the decorum of the Senate's letter, the points in the letter are correct, and all their spinning and protesting will not change that.
Last edited by Spartacus713; 03-13-2015 at 09:11 AM..
Liberals are such hypocrites. Where was their outrage when Bahgdad Jim was being paid by Saddam to visit? When Pelosi went to Syria to undermine Bush? When Rockefeller went to Syria and Saudi Arabia? When John Kerry went to Nicaragua? Of course since they were all democrats undermining a Republican president that's Ok in the lefts mind - the ends justify any means.
That's all the Senators' letter says. According to some posters here, since CD has non-US readers, you just committed treason. Do you feel that your post was a treasonous act?
Yes, because foreigners will be in on our classified secret that we are ruled first and foremost by the U.S. Constitution, which is superior to our President or Congress in terms of the law, and that there are checks and balances in place to make sure that too much power does not accumulate in any one branch of government, especially not the executive branch, a scenario that at the outset of our nation we had a particularly bad experience with.
We cannot have that kind of national secret spilling out.
Bull Squat! I didn't read all the post but did anyone ask what your thoughts were when Pelosi went behind Bush's back and had a powwow with Syrian Dictator Bashar al-Assad.? Maybe she should get the firing squad for treason????
Pelosi was briefed by the White House and there was a State Dept. representative present at the meeting. I don't know why this one keeps getting used as an example. The only instance that come remotely close to sabotaging delicate negotiations was Kennedy's attempt to secretly meet with the Soviets. And even then it was an attempt.
And in no other remotely relatable instance were our closest allies embarrassed and potentially harmed by Congressional interference. Cotton and the other Senators have raised the ire of the Germans, British, and the French, who are also part of the negotiations. What's the point of making a deal if war mongers back in the US vow to break it?
War mongers and defense contractors need a regional boogeyman. They want Iran to pursue a nuclear warhead as justification for a war. Iran is not a friendly government, and they do sponsor terrorism, but they are nowhere near as bad as our allied Gulf countries that are sponsoring Wahhabi influenced ISIS and other terror groups; Countries that we happily sell billions of dollars of F-16s and missile systems to every year.
Is there a difference between a "Treaty" and an "Agreement"? My understanding is the Senate will and does have the last word in ratifying a Treaty but not agreements in which the Obama administration is working on with Iran, not a treaty.
A treaty is binding. An agreement is null and voidable once the presidents term ends.
These Republican Senators should be tried for treason. It's fairly apparent that this war hero Cotton, a Senator for a mere two months, is the face of this uprising trying usurp the Executive office.
Pelosi was briefed by the White House and there was a State Dept. representative present at the meeting. I don't know why this one keeps getting used as an example. The only instance that come remotely close to sabotaging delicate negotiations was Kennedy's attempt to secretly meet with the Soviets. And even then it was an attempt.
And in no other remotely relatable instance were our closest allies embarrassed and potentially harmed by Congressional interference. Cotton and the other Senators have raised the ire of the Germans, British, and the French, who are also part of the negotiations. What's the point of making a deal if war mongers back in the US vow to break it?
War mongers and defense contractors need a regional boogeyman. They want Iran to pursue a nuclear warhead as justification for a war. Iran is not a friendly government, and they do sponsor terrorism, but they are nowhere near as bad as our allied Gulf countries that are sponsoring Wahhabi influenced ISIS and other terror groups; Countries that we happily sell billions of dollars of F-16s and missile systems to every year.
Doesn't sound like Bush wanted her to go...
Quote:
DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) — U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
mingled with Syrians in a market and made the sign of the cross at a Christian
tomb Tuesday as she began a trip to Syria aimed at opening dialogue with its
leader, Bashar Assad. President George W. Bush criticized the visit, saying it sends mixed signals to Damascus.
Pelosi's visit was a new high-profile challenge to Bush
by the majority Democrats in Congress, who are taking a more assertive role in
influencing policy in the Middle East and the Iraq war.
The United States accuses Syria of interfering in
Lebanon, allowing Iraqi Sunni insurgents to operate from its territory and
sponsoring terrorism for its backing of the Hamas and Hezbollah militant groups
— charges Syria denies.
The Bush administration has resisted calls to open direct
talks with Damascus to convince it to help ease the crisis in Iraq and bring
progress in the peace process with
In 1975, the State Department declared that Congress is exempt from the Logan Act. Actually, it's been 212 years since anyone was even charged under the Logan Act.
Nothing in the letter was intentionally aiding a declared enemy of the United States in an effort to undermine or defeat the United States. An open letter that explains the co-equal nature of President + Senate in making a binding treaty is not treasonous, unless explaining civics is now considered treason.
It is in no way unprecedented. Jesse Helms letter in 2000 that said any Clinton deal on the international criminal court was DOA in the Senate as long he was chair of the foreign relations committee. In 1984, Jim Wright, the Speaker of the House, promised Nicaraguan president Daniel Ortega that they would oppose Reagan's foreign policy goals in Nicaragua.
And seriously, nobody remembers the semi-annual speeches and posturing in the Pelosi House during Dubyah's presidency where the threatened withdrawal of funding for the war in Iraq would force his hand to do the Demcorats' bidding? Every other day, a House or Senate Democrat was threatening the President over Iraq policy...during a freaking war for which they gave him blanket authorization to do as he felt necessary and proper.
The Senate is the government. It is the legislative body that represents each of the 50 sovereign states as equals. It is co-equal to the Executive branch, and nothing in the Senate rules precludes Cotton from posting civics lessons on his website.
All this may seem wildly inappropriate, unprecedented, etc, but the fact is, this is business as usual when the Congress and White House are split between the two parties. History existed before Barack Obama was POTUS, really. And nothing in the US Constitution says the Senate nor Tom Cotton did a single thing wrong in that letter. Does it openly demean and antagonize Obama? Sure it does, but that's not illegal, certainly not for the US Senate, the one body most directly REQUIRED to sass the White House.
Here is another example of the many precedents established for this by Democrats:
In April 1985, as the Reagan administration sought to limit Soviet influence in Central America, Senator John Kerry traveled to Nicaragua, met with Communist strongman Daniel Ortega, and accused the Reagan administration of supporting “terrorism” against the government there. Said Kerry, “Senator Harkin and I are going to Nicaragua as Vietnam-era veterans who are alarmed that the Reagan administration is repeating the mistakes we made in Vietnam.” Kerry’s trip followed a letter from a group of House Democrats led by majority leader Jim Wright to Ortega. The “Dear Comandante” letter declared: “We regret the fact that better relations do not exist between the United States and your country. We have been, and remain, opposed to U.S. support for military action directed against the people or government of Nicaragua. We want to commend you and your government for taking steps to open up the political process in your country.”
Liberals are such hypocrites. Where was their outrage when Bahgdad Jim was being paid by Saddam to visit? When Pelosi went to Syria to undermine Bush? When Rockefeller went to Syria and Saudi Arabia? When John Kerry went to Nicaragua? Of course since they were all democrats undermining a Republican president that's Ok in the lefts mind - the ends justify any means.
Oh, well, that was different (they'll say).
This is so overblown it's ridiculous. They are just trying to make some kind of political hay out of nothing.
Cotton and the 46 others were correct to do this, and they released the letter publicly, besides.
Funny how Barack Obama has been disrespecting the Congress since he took office, going around congress (amnesty, FCC so-called "Net Neutrality) and many, many other instances, and the Left says nothing.
If Democrats do it, it's okay. If Republicans do it, it's an outrage, it's treason, and they must be arrested!
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