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Not if such speech violates the "harm principle" as I specified above. And not if such student groups agreed to some other standard of conduct.
By the incorporation principle, do you mean the incorporation debates? Those debates resulted in very narrow decisions about the Bill of Rights that have varied over time, and I'm sure you know about them. I've taken your (ahem) thoughtful words into account, and I still don't think you've made a good case as to why this batch of students' speech is protected. The speech violates the "harm principle"; it has not been sanctioned or infringed upon in any way by the federal government; it violates the charter of the national organization. No ones' rights are being violated here; these students are merely reaping the consequences of their actions.
@diva360, you wrote initially some pages ago (the comment I first responded to):
Quote:
A public state school is not an arm of the federal government, which is what the First Amendment governs and protects.
With that statement, you are unequivocal in your belief that the 1st Amendment applies to the Federal government, and not to the states. You were and are wrong. The 1st Amendment has been fully incorporated against the states via the 14th Amendment; see Gitlow v. New York and R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul, which are just two of many cases explaining this principle. Seriously, though, with that in mind why do you continue to bring up the "federal government?"
And by incorporation principle, I'm referring to the process by which the Supreme Court has applied certain portions of the Bill of Rights to the states (the freedom of speech clause of the 1st Amendment has been fully applied against the states. See the cases I've cited to for examples.).
The "harm principle" doesn't apply here. The language here isn't libelous, slanderous, seditious, and they don't constitute "fighting words."
Also, the public university cannot "contract" with the students to have them throw aside their 1st Amendment rights. Such an action would be the same as the government infringing on one's 1st Amendment rights, which is expressly prohibited. You just can't contract around that, much like you can't contract to be a slave in these United States as doing so violates the express language of the 13th Amendment.
I would assume you are black. Blacks are not only as racist as whites, many admit they hate white people. My best friend is black and he says the same thing.
I'd agree as long as their names are not leaked somehow. But, and I expect their names to get out, if they are, I think all bets are off. Also, if they think they can win damages from the university, I could see a lawsuit, even with the media attention.
One name has already been released - I'm sure the other one will be out soon.
Boren is also investigating a Girls Sorority as there were some on the Party Bus also.
Which is easier... trying to get into another college, and hoping your public outing doesn't follow you when you try to apply for jobs after graduation? Or suing OU for millions of dollars for violating your First Amendment rights?
University attendance is not a right. You have to apply, you have to be accepted, and you have to follow their rules if you want to stay. It took a couple days to expel them - time I am sure that the lawyers spent going over the issue. Either they figure they have a good case or they figure that whatever legal consequences come, it is better than having the name of their institution dragged in the dirt by some trashy racists in the student body. While these boys may be heroes of free speech to you, they are a disgrace and embarrassment to any institution that wants to project a proud and distinguished image in academia.
When any of the students involved realize how screwed they are by the expulsion, and agree to take OU for whatever they can for trampling all over their First Amendment rights.
The students do not want to be exploited by outside special interest groups for "First Amendment rights."
if you don't fight it, nothing will ever change.....and I think those kids on the bus, needed to be thrown out of college....there is no excuse for what they did....literally we were discussing this and other issues this morning....and my black friend asked, "What do I tell my daughter when she asks me about this?"
I felt so bad that this even has to be an issue within there family...it shouldn't be.
I've worked EXCLUSIVELY where there have been many of both colors. And i still do.
No problems anywhere i've ever worked. Obviously, you're having some personal issues, but those are YOUR issues...don't put that on everyone else.
Bleh...not only is that not true but it doesn't matter anyway.
What people feel in their hearts is neither here nor there. It's how it manifests itself that's important. I'm black, and i've never cared about whether or not a white man is racist or not. Still don't care as long as they keep it to themselves.
That doesn't even make sense. You're gonna use your own racism as a crutch? How does that work?
Meaning, they tend to use racism as an excuse for their failures and shortcomings. I work with many blacks in my dept and I hear it all the time. The minute they're reprimanded for poor work ethic, etc....the race card comes right out of their pocket.
The students do not want to be exploited by outside special interest groups for "First Amendment rights."
How do you know? Are you one of them? And since when are Constitutional rights guaranteed to all, only for "special interest groups?"
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