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Old 01-13-2008, 08:08 AM
 
4,070 posts, read 5,585,822 times
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Mandatory civil service is what this country needs. At least two years in the military, peace corps, local community, etc. That would turn this country around and give new meaning to an old word...American. Yep just plain old Americans are all that we need.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,888 posts, read 30,142,652 times
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Originally Posted by OhioNative View Post
Individualism is not the problem - in this country we have actually moved away from any type of self-reliance to a greater dependecy and expectation that the government should take care of more and more of our needs. The real problem is selfishness, greed, and on the part of politicians on both sides, hunger for power and control. We are fat, bloated, and lazy as a nation. We have the richest "poor" people in the world, people with a car, cell phone, DVD player, LCD TV that would be affluent by many countries' standards. We have a middle class that needs to have the newest McMansion, or the newest granite counter tops, or stainless steel appliances, or the newest $100 American Girl doll, etc. We have the ruling elites who are perfectly happy to sell-out this country in order to placate the shareholders. At the same time, we expect the federal government to help subsidize our lifestyle by taking money from someone else through their confiscatory police powers - we expect them to give us "free" health insurance, paid family leave, "earned income" tax credits, free day care or preschool, etc., so that we can continue to buy the latest trinkets sold to us by China. This is not increased individualism, it is increased dependency, born out of greed at all levels of society, and that will be the downfall of this country.
Individualism is a term used to describe a moral, political, or social outlook that stresses human independence and the importance of individual self-reliance and liberty. Individualists promote the exercise of individual goals and desires. They oppose most external interference with an individual's choices - whether by society, the state, or any other group or institution. Individualism is therefore opposed to holism, collectivism, fascism, communalism, statism, totalitarianism, and communitarianism, which stress that communal, group, societal, racial, or national goals should take priority over individual goals. Individualism is also opposed to the view that tradition, religion, or any other form of external moral standard should be used to limit an individual's choice of actions.

Individualism has a controversial relationship with egoism (selfishness). While some individualists are egoists, they usually do not argue that selfishness is inherently good. Rather, some argue that individuals are not duty-bound to any socially-imposed morality and that individuals should be free to choose to be selfish (or to choose any other lifestyle) if they so desire. Others still, such as Ayn Rand, argue against "moral relativism" and argue selfishness is a virtue.

When ever a person, turns their head to issues, moral compassion and care about others....and the effects their actions have on others, that to me is individualistic belief...and while your correct on the effects of being self reliant...it is always about, what is in it for me...before concern for the effects on others....
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:16 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,406,452 times
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Originally Posted by RedNC View Post
You might want to check again. All it takes to register to vote is to check a box on a driver license form or register with any of the people waiting outside of super markets with voter registration forms. They aren’t required to check ID’s and they don’t.
Completing an application for voter registration is not the same thing as being registered. Write to your state board of elections and ask if they take any steps to verify that the information on an application is accurate or to ascertain that the applicant is indeed eligible to vote in the jurisdiction where he has applied to register. Then come back and tell us how no, you just have to check a box and it's a done deal...
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,499 posts, read 5,086,919 times
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Individualism is a term used to describe a moral, political, or social outlook that stresses human independence and the importance of individual self-reliance and liberty.
I was referring to individualism as a characteristic, rather than as a political doctrine. I think that these categorizations create an artificial dichotomy that most people do not fall into - I don't think that most Americans would believe in pure Individualism as a political philosophy, any more than they believe in pure collectivism. If you are arguing that this country should be moving towards more government enforced collectivism, I can't support that. If you are arguing that we need to move away from greed and selfishness individually, I'm on board with that.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,888 posts, read 30,142,652 times
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Originally Posted by OhioNative View Post
I was referring to individualism as a characteristic, rather than as a political doctrine. I think that these categorizations create an artificial dichotomy that most people do not fall into - I don't think that most Americans would believe in pure Individualism as a political philosophy, any more than they believe in pure collectivism. If you are arguing that this country should be moving towards more government enforced collectivism, I can't support that. If you are arguing that we need to move away from greed and selfishness individually, I'm on board with that.
and I was referring to it as becoming more and more a characteristic....

for instance, religion...if a personal view on why a person goes to church and participates in religion is because they fear going to hell if they do not believe in that doctrone, isn't that a form of individualism? Concern for only oneself?

We need to move away from greed and selfishness which is a form of concern only about me...and not considering the effects of the whole...

If you cut off your right arm, you are affecting the rest of the body, but you cut it off, b/c you thought you could benefit by it, without realizing, now you become a ward of your family and friends....but you could benefit by it soleing in the regards of not having to work...you stagnate the rest of the body...your body and the body of the family....disregard for the effects our decissons on others has, is definately individualism. No regard for anyone else...not only do we consider others less and less, but it is becoming a belief....no concept of what others are doing or how they are affected by our behaviors.....
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,499 posts, read 5,086,919 times
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
and I was referring to it as becoming more and more a characteristic....

for instance, religion...if a personal view on why a person goes to church and participates in religion is because they fear going to hell if they do not believe in that doctrone, isn't that a form of individualism? Concern for only oneself?

We need to move away from greed and selfishness which is a form of concern only about me...and not considering the effects of the whole...

If you cut off your right arm, you are affecting the rest of the body, but you cut it off, b/c you thought you could benefit by it, without realizing, now you become a ward of your family and friends....but you could benefit by it soleing in the regards of not having to work...you stagnate the rest of the body...your body and the body of the family....disregard for the effects our decissons on others has, is definately individualism. No regard for anyone else...not only do we consider others less and less, but it is becoming a belief....no concept of what others are doing or how they are affected by our behaviors.....
I couldn't agree more!
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:42 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 4,733,429 times
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Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Completing an application for voter registration is not the same thing as being registered. Write to your state board of elections and ask if they take any steps to verify that the information on an application is accurate or to ascertain that the applicant is indeed eligible to vote in the jurisdiction where he has applied to register. Then come back and tell us how no, you just have to check a box and it's a done deal...
You would have to be extremely naive to believe the state board of election actually checks all voter registrations.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,322,782 times
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
and I was referring to it as becoming more and more a characteristic....

for instance, religion...if a personal view on why a person goes to church and participates in religion is because they fear going to hell if they do not believe in that doctrone, isn't that a form of individualism? Concern for only oneself?

We need to move away from greed and selfishness which is a form of concern only about me...and not considering the effects of the whole...

If you cut off your right arm, you are affecting the rest of the body, but you cut it off, b/c you thought you could benefit by it, without realizing, now you become a ward of your family and friends....but you could benefit by it soleing in the regards of not having to work...you stagnate the rest of the body...your body and the body of the family....disregard for the effects our decissons on others has, is definately individualism. No regard for anyone else...not only do we consider others less and less, but it is becoming a belief....no concept of what others are doing or how they are affected by our behaviors.....
America has never been a "worry about the greater good" sort of place. Back in the days it was a, us against them mentality (anglo only concerned with anglo issues, blacks only concerned with black issues). While the same still holds true, it has become more and more to the point of only being worried about self and screw every one and everything else society.

As I have said repeatedly, the ONLY thing that would change this is a major amount of suffering for the citizens of the USA, so much so that we ALL had to rely on each other for help. I saw this during one of the hurricanes down here in south Florida. For the first time My bible thumper Christian neighbors who repeatedly ignored hellos and good mornings, found their way over to our house to ask if they can use our cell phones. Now we didn't speak to them again after the hurricane (or I should say they went back to not speaking to their neighbors), but I would imagine, had things gone on for a prolonged period of time they would have come over more often.

Last edited by Wild Style; 01-13-2008 at 12:08 PM..
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:26 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,159,747 times
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
Yes, we the people have allowed this...we have not progressed as a nation, we have declined...due to greed and an ever growing individualism. Every decission we make, does not effect just one person, it can though effect an entire nation.
Well I would have to beg to differ. American's did not allow this to happen, they begged for it unwittingly.

There is certainly a balance that must be struck between the needs, desires and responsibility of the individual to that of the needs, desires, and responsibilities of the collective or the responsibilities they may owe each other.

I liken America today to that of a child given a diet of anything it wants. Does it eat a well balanced nutritious diet or does it eat happy meals, hershy bars, and coco puffs. Of course it goes for that which taste good or sweet, but in time adverse health effects occur. They become obese, out of balance and may even appear healthy but the mechanisms that drive them are rotted to the core.

However America is not a child, even if it acts like one at times, and there are natural mechanisms in place to correct poor performance, out of balance wealth or rights distribution; these things residing in our Bill of Rights and Constitution.

Fredrick Douglas once said that "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." and this is very much true. What slows the average Americans ability to see oppression or infringement to their natural rights as citizens is diversion. Diversion and the cloak of obfuscation through the use of a variety of means. A happy and fat people are much more unlikely to see or care to see when something is taken from them.

It is usually in times of plenty that the people are robbed of rights, liberties, or simply succumb to social decadence, because a man who has little or nothing will notice everything someone tries to take from him.

I don't see America as dying in a physical sense, but it is plausible as everything begins to die once it has been born. You can even hear it in an election cycle from the candidates, as today they talk about change, in four years they may be talking about recovery or reform. So while we may be in troubled times indicating a potentially more ominous fate, I am not going to bet against us just yet. We have a long way to fall before we are finished.
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Old 01-13-2008, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,888 posts, read 30,142,652 times
Reputation: 19062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
America has never been a "worry about the greater good" sort of place. Back in the days it was a, us against them mentality (anglo only concerned with anglo issues, blacks only concerned with black issues). While the same still holds true, it has become more and more to the point of only being worried about self and screw every one and everything else society.
I disagree...because it was different, when there was a military draft and manufacturing, science, and new technology was on the upswing, back in the late 40's early 50's and during my childhood I saw it...during the drafts which were then manditory, before Vietnam, when every young man attended the armed forces for training, for what 2 or 3 years...there was a climate of team work....and when one person flawed, the entire team was effected...oh yes, indeed, it existed.


and you are right about a catastrophe, but as in 911, people came together, then people forgot....people do not remember the bad things, when they are not affected personally by it. 911 did nothing to bring together a dire need to reacess the systems of the U.S. and why they were not working. I remember thinking, how in the world could this have happened....and from then on, my eyes started opening to the flaws in our system, recounting years of experience and history, knowing what was and is no longer.
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