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The number of gays who would switch to the GOP if they officially supported gay marriage is negligible. They aren't going to pick up the gay vote.
The number of heteros who vote blue solely because of the gay issue is also negligible.
So it leaves the GOP leadership in a position of caving in for a few votes.
My position is gays are born gay and I don't care what they do anymore than I care what random heteros do.
I believe that the issue of GOP and gays is much bigger than gay marriage.
Ask yourself this question. Suppose the Jews want to legislate what you eat and bans pork from your diet. Would you see this as an issue of pork eating or something else much bigger?
My position is gays are born gay and I don't care what they do anymore than I care what random heteros do.
Agree and Washington State passed gay marriage by vote. The OP, who I disagree with on pretty much everything, also lives in Washington State and I do think he glanced over something that a lot of people miss: gays tend to be affluent. Some of the most wealthy people I know are gay, living in very nice homes with very nice cars and are well traveled. Gay friendly cities like San Francisco and Seattle attract a lot of money. That the Democrats openly declared support of gay marriage attracted a lot of financial support.
Agree and Washington State passed gay marriage by vote. The OP, who I disagree with on pretty much everything, also lives in Washington State and I do think he glanced over something that a lot of people miss: gays tend to be affluent. Some of the most wealthy people I know are gay, living in very nice homes with very nice cars and are well traveled. Gay friendly cities like San Francisco and Seattle attract a lot of money. That the Democrats openly declared support of gay marriage attracted a lot of financial support.
Funny that you mentioned this. Yes, many of us are affluent. I'm an engineer and my partner is an accountant. We don't have children, not yet anyway. Our mechanic as well as other people who we do business with regularly know us by name as soon as we say something on the phone.
It baffles me why some business owners would not want our business. Neither one of us is a do-it-yourself person, so we'd rather just pay someone else to do things for us when something is needed to be done.
Funny that you mentioned this. Yes, many of us are affluent. I'm an engineer and my partner is an accountant. We don't have children, not yet anyway. Our mechanic as well as other people who we do business with regularly know us by name as soon as we say something on the phone.
It baffles me why some business owners would not want our business. Neither one of us is a do-it-yourself person, so we'd rather just pay someone else to do things for us when something is needed to be done.
I know! How has no one figured this out? Some of the most seriously beautiful homes I've been in are owned by gays or gay couples. Vacations that most Americans would drool to take and hotel preferences that nearly always lean in the W category. It's a really affluent segment that breeds gentrification.
When I say Christian conservative, I don't mean a conservative (Republican) who is also Christian. I mean a very specific sect that is conservative and Christian; the type that would have been in favor or prohibition or requiring prayer in school or forced conversion of other religion to Christianity. Not Republicans who believe in Jesus and go to church, who's views can range from very moderate to more conservative.
I don't know any Christian who favors forced conversion or any who want to require prayer. What some Christians do want is a return of common sense on what the First Amendment means about "establishment". I don't know anyone who truly believes that a non-sectarian prayer before a graduation ceremony constitutes "the establishment" of a religion. Certainly Congress doesn't since that is how they start each session.
Dusty was speaking of forced conversions to Christianity. What this bill did was protect therapists who practice "reparative therapy". Whether it works or not isn't really the issue. If there are gay men who want the therapy and therapists who want to provide it, I don't see why they should be prevented from seeking out each other.
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Originally Posted by WestCobb
The so called Tea Party is the flotsam of American politics. Unfortunately, they are an important plank of the Republican coalition, so the GOP is stuck with hugely unpopular stances like bigotry toward gays and Hispanics. If the GOP adopted more progressive positions, it would gain more gay and Hispanic voters, but it would lose teajadists. I wish the GOP would do this -- then the TEAs would have nowhere to go and have no power whatsoever.. which is as it should be.
Wah what?
The Tea Party Movement is about fiscal reform and responsibility, not social issue. The movement started in the wake of disastrous bailouts and explosions in spending.
There is no one "Tea Party", but here are the platforms of two of the major groups using the name. You might want to educate yourself so you can stop the venom about something you clearly do not understand.
No, he said the DEMOCRATS have 18 governors and all are white, except Hawaii where whites are only 24% of the population.
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Originally Posted by michiganmoon
Republicans should support gay rights because it is the right thing to do - NOT because it can help in elections.
I hear Republicans often speak of MORE Individual Liberty and LESS Government Restrictions - seems being for gay marriage would be right in line with that.
The Democrats haven't taken a principled stance on any topic since 1963. Every action is a calculation of how can they maximize votes.
When it comes to gay rights the Democrats had a Democrat president and a filibuster proof Senate yet they didn't pass a single major piece of gay legislation. ENDA wasn't even voted on. DADT wasn't repealed, it was ended because a Republican gay rights group (Log Cabin) filed suit. It wasn't until AFTER Judge Phillips ruling that Congress voted on DADT because the Democrats knew they had to get on board so they could try and claim credit for ending it.
With friends like that.....
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Originally Posted by michiganmoon
To a lot of youth, gay rights is one of the biggest issues.
Youth don't have jobs, pay taxes and file with the IRS every year. It is amazing how your focus shifts to other places when you start a real job.
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Originally Posted by Tominftl
This will never happen as the Republicans have a lot of ignorant people running the show. They want to take us back to the fifties. Listen to the potential candidates for President from the GOP. No ideas, nothing but the same crap we've heard in the last few election cycles. They seem like a bunch of children still mad because Obama is in office. Frankly, the disrespect they have shown to the President is shameful and bordering on treasonus.
Ah yes and the respect shown to President Bush and VP Cheney wasn't shameful?
The only reason Romney lost the election was because 3 million evangelicals who voted for Bush stayed home because when push came to shove, they just could not pull the lever for a Mormon, even if it was in their best interest.
By the way, Moore didn't say the First Amendment protected only Christians, he was merely discussing the history of how the First Amendment came into being. I encourage people to watch the entire 8:31 video and tell me the time on the video when he says "the First Amendment protects only Christian."
This is an example of how MSNBC, HuffPo, etc scream a headline divorced from what was actually said.
The Tea Party Movement is about fiscal reform and responsibility, not social issue. The movement started in the wake of disastrous bailouts and explosions in spending.
There is no one "Tea Party", but here are the platforms of two of the major groups using the name. You might want to educate yourself so you can stop the venom about something you clearly do not understand.
Your post is so much fail but the idea that the Tea Party is purely about fiscal reform is completely incorrect. I can find a hundred religion-based posts on almost any Tea Party site and the comments following the posts are just as bad. Here's a handful but seriously, I could put a book together in about an hour. The Tea Party is not about fiscal reform. The Tea Party is the GOP's most conservative base. They are against gays (they often use a different word for them), against gay marriage, immigration, abortion, most forms of birth control, convinced that whites are under siege, convinced that Boehner and McConnell are making secret deals with the Democratic Party and paranoid about everything.
I follow a couple of right wing blogs just to remind myself of what these people are like. They hate gay people. They hate them. The words they use to describe them are always the most base phrases you can imagine. These are the GOP base and they feel the GOP is not conservative enough. I don't see the GOP changing their stance until support for gay marriage is greater than their base, so maybe 85%?
It's before my time but these people were probably the most vocal against interracial marriage too, using religion then as well.
Maybe you should read this right wing blog, GayPatriot.
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Originally Posted by MetroZombie
I'm sure the nazis made the same argument with regard to oppressing minorities.
Ah, you have violated Goodwin's Law so I think that is an automatic lose in any argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove
I do think he glanced over something that a lot of people miss: gays tend to be affluent.
Your post is so much fail but the idea that the Tea Party is purely about fiscal reform is completely incorrect. I can find a hundred religion-based posts on almost any Tea Party site
I gave you the two largest Tea Party movement websites, go find 100 religion-based posts on each.
Maybe you should read this right wing blog, GayPatriot.
You can find religious nuts in every group of people. The gay community is not immune.
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Ah, you have violated Goodwin's Law so I think that is an automatic lose in any argument.
Actually, godwin's law does not state that anyone bringing up a nazi example automatically loses the argument. You really need to know what you cite.
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